I dont like gender stereotyping boys and girls toys, BUT please help me with this dilemma

[ScaryScaryNight]

My son is 5. He is by no means a rough and tumble type of boy. He is not really into sports, he does not like football. He enjoys tennis lessons once a week after school. He got windsurfing tuition this summer, and loved it. He has asked for more swimming lessons so he can progress with surfing. He is not a "scaredy cat", he is really good at the climbing frames, and swings from ropes with the greatest ease, he did not think twice of climbing a rope bridge this summer (Like a football net suspended across a river), and he enjoys cycling.

Yet, he is different from the other boys in his class, in that he is not very boyish. He likes to draw, he draws intricate construction manuals for science projects he wants to do. He builds lego suitable for 8-14 age range without any help, he builds his own lego inventions that he can never pull to pieces (chocolate factory, nailpolish machine) all with elobarate stories of how it works.

He is also into pirates, Jack Sparrow, Transformers, Scoobydoo, Dr Who, Spiderman, etc....

I have always encouraged him to follow what he wants to do and not push him in any direction, as I think it is important for him to do as he wants and explore who he is and what he likes to do.

But now, he wants a make up kit. He has seen the Argos catalogue and he wants the entire Bratz range, with nail, make up, hairbrusher, etc. He knows it is for girls, yet he wants it.

He is very into clothes. He has enjoyed advising all our au pairs on what to wear, what belts and accessories go with what outfit, he has a remarkable eye, and they actually listen to him. A year ago I bought him a paper doll fashion kit, and he enjoyed dressing up the dolls in the different outfits. Then he discovered my Vertbaudet catalogue, and progressed to cut it to pieces and put the clothes together on a big collage, with what accessories to go with what.

I dont want to stiffle him. Yet, I am reluctant to buy him all these cosmetics toys. What should I do?
I feel a terrible hypocrite, on the one hand I would like to buy him one, and hope he doesnt show his schoolfriends. On the other hand..... Maybe I should just buy him a make up head doll?

thank you for taking my comments with the best of intentions starry - your son does sound delightful and pretty much like my own boy ( cycling away quite happily, dancing around the living room in heels i can't walk in, desperate to do my hair,(polystyrene head/wig is a brill idea btw!)) His elder brother is a little thug ( again, you try your best...) obsessed with weaponry and warfare etc.. neither like football and when random little boys ask what team they support ( we live in Glasgow and apparently it's rather important) they just shrug and say they don't like football.

the thing that strikes me most from the majority of posts here is how supportive parents will be of their ds/dds sexuality when that time arrives. I do think 5 is way too young for any labelling either way ( not that you have!) but i do sometimes wonder because some gay folk say that they've 'always' known - when does 'always' start. i can't remember being interested in sex at all much before secondary school and the onset of puberty. my dd (12) likes boys, my ds1(9) thinks girls have cooties, but he does go bright pink when you mention a couple of girls in his class and ds2 has his shoes and hairbrush. He thinks he will marry a girl, but i think thats because it's still generally acceptable that marriage is for straight people, despite civil partnerships and my gay friends aren't really in long term relationships. so he doesn't have a real life scenario to look at rather than me going 'boys can fall in love with boys and girls can fall in love with girls'

sorry starry, I've gone off on a huge tangent ( brevity, indeed.. ) who cares as long as your child is happy -

Think i'd buy him what he likes and if anyone asks just say he played with them at his cousins and liked it so much when she grew out of it they passed them to you or you could just say he enjoys playing with it and i want him to be happy. He sounds like a lovely clever, creative little boy, he may grow up to be the next top fashion designer or hairdresser, he may be gay or he may be like my brother and grow up totally straight despite prancing about it our hells and dressing up skirts! Does it really matter as long as he is enjoying himself and is happy?

Forgot to say, my brother is gay - i think my mum and dad were surprised when he came out (which is more a generational head in the sand thing), but no one else was.

He is in a long term relationship with a lovely guy, and has a high profile career which takes him all over the world - maybe I should hire him out as a role model!

I think you should buy him a whole bunch of make-up and be proud of yourself for raising a son who is so free of gender stereotype bullcrap. Just don't buy Bratz, no point trading in one gender stereotype for another, eh?

This poster generally sums up how I feel about gender stereotyping for kids. That's why, for DD's 2nd birthday we bought her both the baby doll and the black and decker tool bench she wanted

I have a different take on this, Scary, which is that I don't think this is a gender/sexuality issue at all. He is just artistic with a strong sense of design. As a designer myself I'm sad that neither of my two DSs show any flair for art (tho at 3, DS2 is a bit young yet).
FWIW, most of the male designers I know (graphics & product) are straight, & not all male fashion designers are gay either (though most are). Giles Deacon & Christian Lacroix are married & Ralph Lauren has 3 grown-up children!

Get him the face paints - Bratz are yuk!

Thanks Scampadoodle. He has a cupboard for arts and crafts. He has sequins, glitter, feathers, cardboard shapes, paper plates, paints and plastecine, he loves to make cards and faces. He is very interested in colour, and matching. Last year I bought an office chair in Ikea, and the box had a sort of L shape, he took one look at the empty box and begged to paint it into an ice cream van, which we did and had great fun with. Other empty boxes became houses and a rocket for exploring space. Life is NOT boring.

He sounds very talented Scary - just remember to save all those 'formative early works', they'll be your pension!

ScaryScaryNight - I wouldn't buy my 5yo DD Bratz make up TBH. I'd go with some of your old stuff for now.

BTW, one of DH's (male) friends was really into fashion and that side of things when they were at school. Said person is now a very reputable fashion designer, of accessories (bags, etc.) I think, for some of the top names. So encourage it - you never know!

Hi there

We have been contacted by a Producer for Radio 5 Live and M'netter who read this thread with interest and wondered whether anyone (and specifically a couple of posters on this thread) would be interested in discussing these issues on a Radio Programme. We don't like to use the CAT facility to contact members about media stuff and would normally ask for this is posted on the 'media requests' board but as this was so specifically about this thread, we have posted Katie's message up here. Feel free to contact or not and hope you're happy with us approaching you about this on here.
Best wishes
MNHQ

I'm a Mumsnet member and a producer on the Victoria Derbyshire Show on BBC Radio Five Live. I wondered if anyone would consider coming on our radio programme to talk about the dilemmas caused by boys who want to wear make up or dress up in girls clothes. Both ScaryScaryNight and Spiderhammer have written about their experiences and if they or anyone else would be prepared to talk to me, please can you contact me at [email protected] or ring and ask for Katie on 020 8624 9502.

Have seen a darling pink & white swivel chair in local charity shop - should I buy for DS, four?

Like others, my issue is with the Bratz stuff which I refuse to buy for my dd. It is bad bad bad for any kid IMO. I would offer him some other choices of similar products, doll heads with makeup. Find out what it is he is interested in, the hair styling, makeup or just to have a doll. I have bought "girl"stuff for one of my sons who have both boy and girl toys. Last xmas he got a polly pocket and he often chooses clickets when we buy lego and other times he picks a bionicle. I would be honest with him that it is fine to have that toy but that some boys tease other boys who play with girl toys and he shouldn't take it to school but keep it at home to play with. I know lots of boys who have "girl" toys. Nothing wrong with it. There is something about the toy he finds interesting, nothing more than that.

OMG!

I did not see the post from Rachel mumsnet till today....

I was ScaryScaryNight for halloween

Your son is obviously a creative wee boy, I am sure I have seen (not sure where, in a posh toy catalogue or online somewhere) books and or kits for kids to have a go at movie special effects type makeup. You could probably find instructions online on how to do "movie" make-up, it might be more challenging and a bit more acceptable for his peers. My sons love to watch the extras on DVD's where the effects guys show how it is done. Mind you, you may have to put up with having 'scars' applied.

By the way i went to art school with plenty of men who turned a love of fashion and design into a career.

By the way i went to art school with plenty of men who turned a love of fashion and design into a career.

Why not get him an origami or a kirigami (or both) one-a-day calendar. It sounds like he's good at art/design and fine motor skills and that kind of thing has no gender bias.
(DH is a blokey electonics engineer and still surprises me by leaving a tiny but precisely engineered eagle perching somewhere.)
Scared by make-up heads!