I dont like gender stereotyping boys and girls toys, BUT please help me with this dilemma

[ScaryScaryNight]

My son is 5. He is by no means a rough and tumble type of boy. He is not really into sports, he does not like football. He enjoys tennis lessons once a week after school. He got windsurfing tuition this summer, and loved it. He has asked for more swimming lessons so he can progress with surfing. He is not a "scaredy cat", he is really good at the climbing frames, and swings from ropes with the greatest ease, he did not think twice of climbing a rope bridge this summer (Like a football net suspended across a river), and he enjoys cycling.

Yet, he is different from the other boys in his class, in that he is not very boyish. He likes to draw, he draws intricate construction manuals for science projects he wants to do. He builds lego suitable for 8-14 age range without any help, he builds his own lego inventions that he can never pull to pieces (chocolate factory, nailpolish machine) all with elobarate stories of how it works.

He is also into pirates, Jack Sparrow, Transformers, Scoobydoo, Dr Who, Spiderman, etc....

I have always encouraged him to follow what he wants to do and not push him in any direction, as I think it is important for him to do as he wants and explore who he is and what he likes to do.

But now, he wants a make up kit. He has seen the Argos catalogue and he wants the entire Bratz range, with nail, make up, hairbrusher, etc. He knows it is for girls, yet he wants it.

He is very into clothes. He has enjoyed advising all our au pairs on what to wear, what belts and accessories go with what outfit, he has a remarkable eye, and they actually listen to him. A year ago I bought him a paper doll fashion kit, and he enjoyed dressing up the dolls in the different outfits. Then he discovered my Vertbaudet catalogue, and progressed to cut it to pieces and put the clothes together on a big collage, with what accessories to go with what.

I dont want to stiffle him. Yet, I am reluctant to buy him all these cosmetics toys. What should I do?
I feel a terrible hypocrite, on the one hand I would like to buy him one, and hope he doesnt show his schoolfriends. On the other hand..... Maybe I should just buy him a make up head doll?

I..... SHALLL..... STaaaayy away from the HEAD!

oh yuckety gross. Images of dolls from horror movies suddenly enter my mind....

I've just spotted this thread thanks to the MN round up email. I have three sons and my 5 year old is and always has been extremely camp.

I'm not pigeon holing him but, for example, while walking in town a couple of months ago he stopped dead and was transfixed by the Andy Warhol picture of Marilyn Monroe. 'Who is she?' he asked dh without breaking eye contact with Marilyn. Now he has her picture framed at his bedside.

As for make up, dh was buying a set for dd and spiderboy wanted some. He wore it to school the next day . I didn't do the school run and wouldn't have allowed it had I known BUT I went to pick him up and he insisted on touching up his make up before going on to the juniors to collect his brother and sister.

I've worried and agonised over the years about this. In fact the first thread I started on MN was Boys in Dresses, yes or no? and I remember being quite shocked by some of the knee jerk responses.

I want my son do be whoever he is without feeling ashamed or wrong in any way. I'm personally not at all worried about him, BUT I understand the need to protect him from society's prejudices and there really are still plenty of those.

So I let him be who he wants but I always have a chat with him. He knows most boys don't like dresses, he has been teased about always being a princess at dressing up time, but he honestly doesn't care. He seems to have the personality to carry it off and he's certainly popular. I'm relieved as I didn't want to be forced in to a position of reiforcing prejudices from others.

My gay friends tell me they had a horrible time feeling unloved, wrong and rejected by their parents. They suffered years of guilt and worry and the feeling that they were wrong, dirty, unnatural. I would HATE to stifle in this way.

My son may well end up having a tough time at school later on, but I will not join in with the prejudice and gender stereotyping which I have always fought against and despised in out society.

He loves it when DH sings 'My Way' and I've recently been singing I Am What I Am to all my kids as I love the sentiment behind it.

My five year old absolutely loves to play with Brqatz round at his girlfriend's house btw. I didn't like them previously but I think they're better than Barbie and I do like their clothes sense so I may be looing at getting him those in his stocking.

Well, knee jerk or not, it wouldn't happen here. Probably because Dh wouldn't allow it, but then we don't have bratz or barbie for the girls, anyway.

Gosh, we're terribly unreconstructed here. Sorry about that.

I wept with joy when DD1 expressed the urge for a power ranger toothbrush over those effing blinding Bratz.

How about an action man - I think the large ones come with different outfits. My DS definitely likes putting the coat and boots on and off.

Oh my gosh, your little boys sound adorable.

But action men don?t come with sequins.

My youngest is the same ? he?s eight now, knows all his show tune, goes to ballet has a strong and magnetic personality. Radiates happiness when he is running around in feather boas, loves dressing up. I?ve never encouraged him, or discouraged him, he just is who he is He doesn?t want to be a girl, he likes girls and they?re his friends - but so are boys.

I?m enormously proud of him. He?s accepted by his classmates and I never hear of him falling out with anyone over something so daft as how he looks.

I probably wouldn?t have allowed my dd a bratz make up head thing when she was five ? because I don?t want my daughter to grow up thinking that make up is very important from the point of view of a continuation of the images of women that she will see on a day to day basis of looking ?nice? or attractive to men. Obviously I would agree that make up on any child, male or female isn?t appropriate. My son got a bratz head for last xmas from my ex and grew bored of it pretty quickly. He prefers dressing up the barbies and making clothes for them from scraps of material. I would probably say if his heart is set on it, then get it. I don?t approve of a lot of toys and I do think that the bratz head is pretty vile, but if he really, really wanted it ? I?d buy it for him. Ds is probably getting a dolls house this year. So what?

That said, I do explain, carefully, that some people are old fashioned, or silly and don?t think boys should wear bright shiny feathery clothes, at least during the hours of daylight.

Finally, I do think that your op smacks a TINY little of ?oh my GOD he might be GAY!? I know plenty of fairly camp straight men who are extremely popular with the ladies. I think five/eight whatever is pretty young to determine his sexuality. Some people know what their sexuality is extremely early ? some don?t. not all gay men like make up/campness and not all straight ?acting? men date women ? please just let him be who he is. He sounds like a little star.

I wouldn't buy a 5 year old girl a bratz anything so think you can get away with not buying a boy it

but I don't see why you don't buy him some nice quality face paints

He sounds great-good for you for not doing the Bratz thing though-nothing to do with gender-stereotyping IMHO just the fact that they are HIDEOUS!

A lot of girls like playing with make-up I can remeber rifling through my older cousins bag then my mums. It's role-play & exploring the grown-ups world so why not let a boy do it?

my DD1 had a nursery chum who made a beeline for the silver lame shoes EVERY time he set foot through the door. His mum was really worried it was abnormal, but he soon went on to other things & is now a teenage sporty hunk with broken voice & spots! (would it matter if he hadn't?)

Spiderhammer I think that's great that your DS feels so confident he can do these things AND run the gamut of boyish teasing but still be liked. he is obviously well-balanced because he's secure in your love & support.

Scary follow your intincts-let him explore but with the same limits you would put on any of your children because of their age rather than their gender.

Hope that makes sense?!

Let him have it but try and explain why it's hideous?

DS is 5 and has (coincidentally, because I love it) quite (well very) long hair. \

He went through a long stage of 'being' a girl whenever he pushed his hair off his face, wanting polly pocket etc, all of which was fine with me (tho I did notice it, so maybe not quite as chilled as I like to think.)

re; gayness - lots and lots of boys go through a feminine stage and become hetero. And others become gay. Gayness is, as far as I understand it, not inevitably connected with dressing up in girlie clothes - that's transexuality!

I think for my DS it was a kind of early erotic exploration - ie he was fascinated with girls and a bit in love with a couple of them, and this was part of his new interest in the nature and meaning of 'girl-ness'.. iygwim.

if you got him a jack sparrow outfit with pirate tattoos, black nail varnish, long wig etc would that be useful?

And encourage the arty side, collage projects, masks?

Either let him have it because it will please him or, if you have real objections to Bratz stuff (which I know some people do though I think such people should f** get out more), refuse it on the grounds that he's too young for it and buy him some facepaints instead.

My DS (3) sometimes announces that he's a little girl. He also sometimes announces that he's a tram, a train, a goose or a pussycat. Which could suggest some really interesting sexual choices when he grows up

My lass loves Bratz, but i HATED them till she got one. I agree, way cooler than Barbie - check out the dvd's. Taking the @$ out of fashionistas and plastic surgery, and they skateboard. My little man loves them too, as well as Thunderbirds, and just has to have his toenails painted, and full make up too when he can (Big Sis!). Don't woory, my friends lad always made a bee-line for the fairy outfit, but all the girls wanted to play with him. He's not daft.....

madamez I hate Bratz & get out plenty thank-you!

They are over priced, hideously crafted & so achingly "trendy" they make me shudder.
But if you want to buy them go ahead it's called freedom of choice & I won't return the insult by slagging you off for your choice!

Anyway sorry Scary not to divert from the serious point you made....!

All of you, thank you so much for all your interesting and good comments.

Persephonesnape

"Finally, I do think that your op smacks a TINY little of ?oh my GOD he might be GAY!? "

I have reread my OP, I dont see where you get that.

He is 5. He has had a girlfriend since Christmas, he likes girls. However, should he turn out to be gay, so be it, I will support him all the way whatever he does, as long as he is happy. I have had enough gay friends in my life to know how big damage parents can do. For now, I will let him be himself, but I do not want to encourage make up. I will let him explore face paint and dressing up.

Nice one scary-night!!

i know starry, apologies if i worded it badly and suspected that you were a fire-breathing homophobe, that really wasn't my intention. i think it was because you described him as being artistic and 'not very boyish' - then dropped in the make up - it did look a bit stereotypically 'oh my!' to me, but then obviously I don't know you and we're relying on the internet rather than sitting next to each other.

It's difficult because as parents we all have preconceptions (...) about what little boys are like and what little girls are like - and when you get a child that isn't what society would have you expect, you may occasionally feel a little bewildered.

i do understand your reticence about what other people may think, but he's your boy and you're his mum - you're the important people in your relationship, not what other folk think.

I think they're are some really great posts here and food for thought for me too. I have boy/girl twins and am fascinated with the way they are developing. They're only 17months but already they are very different, each displaying a whole range of stereotypical behaviours male and female. We try really hard not to force them down any avenue in terms of play or self expression. It seems there are many enlightened Mums here, its a pity toy distributors don't take the hint and stop categorising toys as male or female (ie colour coding everything pink or blue - Ahhhhh drives me mad). A child has to be pretty strong minded to want something from the 'wrong' section. Hurrah to all those that are.

what a great thread - my ds loves dressing-up (i think they all do at that age) and i'd like to think he could be or do whatever he wants.

i draw the line at bratz and barbie for any of my three kids, though they seem to get plenty from other people.

honestly, for a toy designer i'm such a prude

SarahPH, sometimes I think it's hardest for those like your children in boy/girl twin households - the families we know with a b/g twin have found their children have more exaggerated gender behaviour than in other families.

In our 3 girl family it seems quite easy in a way to have both "boys" and "girls" toys and colours without it being a gender issue. Dd1 (7) always chooses blue items, and loathes pink, dd3 (3) likes pink sparkly stuff, and dd2 (6) alternates between pink/blue/whatever.

It's one thing I like about having children of all the same gender, their individuality isn't so linked to gender identity.

This has reminded me of a litle boy I know who went through a "Barbie" phase at age 4. When asked what he wanted for Christmas he said "a Barbie". He got one and a Barbie duvet & pillowcase set which he loved! He grew out of it eventually & is know at the "girls YUK!" stage His mum took all sorts of stick from family & friends but she refused to make an issue of it so it never became one & he thoroughly enjoyed what they now refer to as his "pink phase"

I think we are a quite unusual household in a sense. My husband is very masculine, I am very feminine. My husband works within IT, but is repairing his bike, his motorbike, making repairs to the car, he is into model airplanes, cycling, windsurfing (I also windsurf, though it has been a while!), and involves our sons (5 1/2 and 28mts) I also work within IT, and I do all the gardening, and all the diy inside the house, and I am quite self reliant in that respect, on holiday, I made repairs to the fridge on the campervan while my husband minded the kids. He is as likely as me to put them to sleep and read them stories. You are as likely to find me with a powerdrill as a rolling pin to put it that way. Maybe because our household has quite blurred lines of what is stereotypical women and mens roles, he is more likely to want to explore all aspects.

When he goes to friends with older or younger sisters, he is very happy to play with toy kitchens and dolls, etc, and one mum apologised to me. I said what for? Your son is lucky to have a sister so he can play with a whole range of toys and not just the boyish toys he is most likely to pick up himself.

I too find it irritating that there are so many pink and and pale blue toys. Toy manufacturers should take care to make more gender neutral toys.

He has an action man, he doesnt really play with it.

It is strange to see how his younger brother is so different. He is into all the traditional "boy" things, he loves football, he is loud, he gets into fights. Yesterday at the playground another boy, maybe 3 or 4 years old pushed him, and my 2 year old just went for him hitting and punching. I dont commend that sort of behaviour, but my oldest would come running to me and not defend himself. Maybe growing up with an older brother is making him assert himself more.

Persephonesnape, I think the point I was trying to make was that my son is into a range of things, windsurfing is quite macho, as is cycling and climbing. He is not keen to just go with the flow, he is quite individualistic in that he would rather find something he enjoys doing rather than just join in with the football to stay with his friends. But sometimes having a child who is so extremely keen to go his own ways, and do his own things can be quite hard work. My son wants me to buy him a motorized dingy, as he wants to go fishing! (we live in london).

I am not yet concerned with his sexuality, and I am not a homophobe at all, I just want to ensure that I can stimulate him, and let him go his own way, develop and explore without me starting to say "no, that is for girls". And I have not taken offence in the least of your suggestion I might be worried that he is gay. If I had been worried about this, your post would have been exactly the kind of post needed to let me discuss this and be reassured. That is what this place is for. I am sure you put into writing what many may have been thinking but not wanting to say.

I need to learn brevity.

Your son sounds fab, and reminds me very much of both my brother at that age and my middle son (who is very nurturing, loves to cook etc). I'm sure that you are giving him the self confidence to be who he wants to be and his true friends will accept him for who he is. Look forward to the day he can design clothes for you/ do your hair!

Lol about the hair, we may have a compromise. He asked if he could have one of my wigs. (dont ask [eyeroll emoticon])

So I shall buy him a poylsteren head for storing wigs, and he can do "her" hair. Not as gross and girly as that "barbie half head".

Or does this just sound weird?