family life not as I imagined it

[walnut87]

Hi. I think I need to get this off my chest and just wondering if anyone has been through similar and found that it gets better. This is long, I apologise and thank you I’m advance if you read it.

I had my first baby earlier this year. This year has admittedly been ridiculous with us all having to shield, partner working at home for six months off kitchen table and worrying about his job and studying. The stress has been a lot to take and I had PND early on. I’m much more level now but panicky about going back to work soon.

I’m just struggling as I feel, to be honest, like we aren’t a family unit. He has said he has struggled to adjust. I know he loves us very much but he is so desperate to cling onto his old life it’s impossible for me to talk to him about it... it is hard to communicate with him about this stuff and I am trying lots of techniques and things change for a couple of days then go back.

He is working really hard at work and then on the weekend has a huge list of stuff he wants to get done, some for us but lots for him or other people. He is very generous with his time for his family and friends. he is often late to work/home and when I tried to get to the bottom of it he was weird with me. He takes it as a given that he can just get up and go and do things without negotiating time with me for looking after our daughter, if that makes sense? I am expected to use her naptime to do what I want to do.. which is basically impossible as there is housework to do (I don’t have high standards in this department either) or sleep to catch up on. He has apologised once for being selfish but that hasn’t changed things. He does a LOT for us but it isn’t a) childcare or b) looking after me. If I raise things he just goes on a rant about how busy he is... Perhaps I just need to get a grip? Am I expecting too much?

We’ve barely done anything fun together all year, I know it’s been crazy but I had this dream of taking time to do stuff together as the three of us, go see new places, but I can barely get him out of the house. He can’t take holiday because work is weird. With covid cases rising I don’t see how this is going to get any better. He literally hasn’t taken any photos of me and our daughter since April, it’s sort of like this precious time of her life is just disappearing away and he’s not a part of it? When I say anything he just says “well I was at home for six months so got to see her whenever I wanted”

I bring baggage to the table because I was brought up by my dad while my mum worked and so I am aware and always trying to balance my expectations of him. His family were and still are very traditional. I was brought up to be really independent but increasingly feel like I’m being squished into this old fashioned female role. He’s rarely asked how I am, even when I’m at my lowest. It’s like all empathy has gone out the window.

Is this just an adjustment period? I love him very much but I’ve found myself so frustrated with him SO often this year I am worried that it will be this way forever. Is this just a thing families go through before they find a happy equilibrium? I have no idea how we will manage when i go back to work and I mentioned it to him and he became incredibly defeatist. He is clinging to pre-fatherhood life but I am sort of desperately trying to cling onto some semblance of me. Hoping someone can give me some hope that this is all just temporary >.

Letsallscreamatthesistene men are never postpartum therefore they never have pist partum depression. It is caused by female reproductive hormones. It is not always diagnoaed immediately post partum but the onset is always in the weeks post partum or during or in the weeks after stopping brwadt feeding.

Male mental health is important but they do not have to have everything women have to be fair, they don't give birth, they can get situational depression after their partner has a baby.

Its not belittling men to observe that they are not women who have recently given birth and therefore do not have postnatal depression any more than the baby's grandmother or uncle a non parent closely involved adult does.

He's ducking out of his responsibility. It doesn't matter why, women in the main don't do that because PND or not, they have to do the day to day childcare. I would leave the baby with him one weekend morning or afternoon and go out, remove yourself, leave them to it. He had to feel both responsible and competent and at the moment, he's neither.

It's very common, it happened to me and it's so shit. It has dented my marriage for life.

Agree with everything SpaceOP said.

Having a newborn baby is hard, having a first newborn baby is extremely difficult. Your DH sounds like the helpful type who cannot say no to others. He is doing his usual amount Of helping out but you feel like he isn’t stepping up as a father. You are feeling overwhelmed and probably quite bored and lonely. Worst feeling in the world!

Unfortunately the first few months, dare I say first 12 months, is disproportionately on the mother. You have to care for the baby pretty much on your own. Let the housework slide if you can, ask him to do just his own laundry to lighten the load (use excuse of not wanting to mix baby clothes with outside clothes or whatevs)
Once the baby is crawling, smiling and calling him dada things will change.
You have to prepare him mentally as he didn’t have the 9 month of physical bodily change and excruciating pains to remind him of parenthood.
Tell him each and every new thing you discover with your child. Text him smiling baby photos or poopy nappy disaster photos/videos. Share these fascinating discoveries, he will come around before you know it. Speak to close friends and family to evade loneliness and boredom. I played chess/sudoku on the phone to help me fall asleep during nap times.

I've felt this way too and my baby is 15 months. My husband is a good man (honestly!) but he really struggled to redefine his core family as me, him and the baby. He took his mum to see a movie when our baby was two weeks old and I was supposed to be on bed rest with a third degree tear 🤦🏻‍♀️

He has improved since then - we had help from a good counsellor and when he started working from home he got a peek into my day to day life which shook him up. But I still sometimes feel the way you do so I'll be following this thread.

@MumbleJunction

It's very common, it happened to me and it's so shit. It has dented my marriage for life.

Agree with everything SpaceOP said.

I’m so sorry to hear this...

All the ones saying it's an adjustment period- would you be fine with a woman treating the first year of motherhood as an adjustment period while the baby, presumably, changed its own nappies and learned to interact with other humans by cooing to itself?

Even a woman with PND- would you be fine with them just shutting themselves away from the baby and *not performing actual, physical tasks needed to keep the baby alive^?

What is it with men, why do people accept that they can just sit around and wait with doing things until they feel like it? We don't treat 6-yos like that: they jolly well have to go to school and do their homework and have their baths whether they feel like it or not.

OP im pleased you've got some ideas from this thread.

Mostly though, this thread has made me realise how little mens mental health is considered. Just the mentions of PND in men has been shouted down, which I find quite sad really to the point where I get the feeling its not considered AT ALL.

Dont get me wrong, its rare and the majority of the time the man is being lazy/carrying on like nothings changed/expecting the woman to pick up the whole childcare bit and theres no deeper thought.

OP "He takes it as a given that he can just get up and go and do things without negotiating time with me for looking after our daughter, if that makes sense? I am expected to use her naptime to do what I want to do.. which is basically impossible as there is housework to do (I don’t have high standards in this department either) or sleep to catch up on. He has apologised once for being selfish but that hasn’t changed things. He does a LOT for us but it isn’t a) childcare or b) looking after me. If I raise things he just goes on a rant about how busy he is... Perhaps I just need to get a grip? Am I expecting too much?"

no, you're not expecting too much. He needs to spend time with his own child and you need time to do your own thing.

he's admitted he is being selfish.

I would sit down with him and fix set time when you can be out of the house and he, um, looks after his own child.

he is often late to work/home and when I tried to get to the bottom of it he was weird with me

I would try a bit harder to get to the bottom of this. I suspect that’s where the answer lies.

Thanks everyone. A lot of what you are saying is ringing true and it’s reassuring to know that the first twelve months or so are this hard for a lot of families. I’m not going to assume that it’s doomed because I know how much he values his family memories from when he was a kid, with everyone being around and involved, and I know how sad he has been that this has been impossible due to covid. He does value family, he’s just not got over his old life yet... women don’t get a choice in giving that up tho, so I do resent the luxury of having so long to cling onto it ha.

I think he lacks any involved male role models, and also any examples of families where the workload is equal. He sees his role as the “provider” and all his rhetoric sort of comes from that but that won’t work for us as we have equally stressful professional jobs & earn the same. He does do housework and he does all the renovations which is a constant unveiling of old owners’ awful & faintly dangerous workmanship. So he is not neglecting us but he shows he cares through being helpful with stuff he is confident with. I guess I just need more consideration for me, and that is where he has been selfish. But I’ve let it happen to some extent, I need to speak up for myself instead of grizzling about it all, it’s like it’s hard to assert my feminist self when I’m at home with a baby and he’s working.

I think it is a bit more existential for him... he is aware but he is just really struggling to adjust and he thinks there should still be enough hours in the day to do everything. Like he’s resisting the inevitable time suck of parenthood. He really struggles with confidence with our dd so I need to support him in that and have been by integrating him in bedtime routine, but he probably does need a baptism of fire yes. I have a hairdresser trip booked for when he is planning some time off. I will take a bit longer than needed 😁

Thanks for the suggestions again everyone and reassurances, they have got me thinking ☺️

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

OP im pleased you've got some ideas from this thread.

Mostly though, this thread has made me realise how little mens mental health is considered. Just the mentions of PND in men has been shouted down, which I find quite sad really to the point where I get the feeling its not considered AT ALL.

Dont get me wrong, its rare and the majority of the time the man is being lazy/carrying on like nothings changed/expecting the woman to pick up the whole childcare bit and theres no deeper thought.

I agree. I’m not getting involved in the convo on here about it because we have already considered it as a couple and and I care a lot about his emotional health; we have been through a lot and he is more open and reflective with age. We talk a lot about it. It’s not one thing or the other with guys, you’re right - but it has undoubtedly frustrated me that he left me to deal with my mental health on my own, altho I think covid has just placed a ridiculous extra burden on us that he has found very hard to cope with and so while we don’t think he has had PND (or whatever we are calling it), he has found it difficult in other ways which I haven’t ignored & do appreciate when I take into account his actions.

@RUOKHon

he is often late to work/home and when I tried to get to the bottom of it he was weird with me

I would try a bit harder to get to the bottom of this. I suspect that’s where the answer lies.

I think so too although I have a bit of a habit of fixating but yes. He is trying after I called him out on it, phew. When I go back to work he won’t have a choice either 🤣 Thank you x

Following with interest and I really hope it works out for you OP!

My little one is nearly 6 months and we are going through similar. Both me and my DP are exhausted, in different ways. I feel like I'm on call for the baby 24/7 and he feels overwhelmed by the responsibility of supporting us both emotionally and financially (while I'm on mat leave) and performing well at work. I'm getting eff all sleep, he's getting more than me but not enough to function well on. It's winter. There's a global pandemic. I could go on!

It feels like the blind leading the blind at the moment. Usually we rely on eachother for support and positivity, but we are both struggling, and level headed conversations usually turn into a competitive sport. It's the tiredness Olympics.

I have no advice but have been told time and time again that the first year is HARD on relationships. Clinging onto that fact. Fingers crossed for you!

I call bullshit on PND: he wasn’t pregnant, didn’t give birth and didn’t have any hormonal changes. His life hasn’t even massively changed from what you say so not even a lifestyle change. It all sounds quite similar to how it was before, he literally is clinging on hard to it

I would be forcing him to step up. Fuck nicey nicey. I’d start booking hair appointments where he cares for baby (restrictions allowing), ask which night feeds he’s doing, trying to do some stuff for you etc. I’m assuming you will be going back to work at some point and l will have to step up at this point

Mostly though, this thread has made me realise how little mens mental health is considered. Just the mentions of PND in men has been shouted down, which I find quite sad really to the point where I get the feeling its not considered AT ALL.

Men's mental health is of course a concern. But there's no indicators of such in this post. Many of us have dealt with poor mental health in the men we love but nothing the OP said suggested this.

My own brother suffers significantly from depression, not specifically PND. But the birth of his DC has had a profoundly negative impact on his mental health. It hasn't stopped him from caring for the baby, doing what he needs to etc. Mostly, it's just reinforced his sense of guilt and inadequacy because he feels demotivated, unbalanced and directionless. But he is 100% pulling his weight, albeit it not always with a smile. He is not out and about ditching his wife and child. He's not prioritising other people. He's perfectly capable of feeding the baby, doing nappy changes, playing with her etc....

@LikeTheOceansWeRise

Following with interest and I really hope it works out for you OP!

My little one is nearly 6 months and we are going through similar. Both me and my DP are exhausted, in different ways. I feel like I'm on call for the baby 24/7 and he feels overwhelmed by the responsibility of supporting us both emotionally and financially (while I'm on mat leave) and performing well at work. I'm getting eff all sleep, he's getting more than me but not enough to function well on. It's winter. There's a global pandemic. I could go on!

It feels like the blind leading the blind at the moment. Usually we rely on eachother for support and positivity, but we are both struggling, and level headed conversations usually turn into a competitive sport. It's the tiredness Olympics.

I have no advice but have been told time and time again that the first year is HARD on relationships. Clinging onto that fact. Fingers crossed for you!

This is what I meant to say only much more eloquently . That’s it exactly. Especially the competitive bit, it drives me nuts. It’s finding a way to get through the storm stronger though... x

All the avoidance OP described made me think of it. That, coupled with the fact he told OP he wasnt adjusting well.

Anyway, its nice to see OP and her partner discussed it and ruled it out. Its more forward thinking than most on this thread.

PND has nothing to do with 'hormones'. Feeling weepy due to hormonal fluctuations is normal in the weeks following birth. Its when those feelings are still there months down the line PND is considered.

OP it’s not the norm. Or at least I hope it’s not the norm, Despite hearing a lot about it on mn. DH has been 50/50 from the start. With everything. Yes it’s hard but It should be an adjustment shared by both of you.

DS is 18 months and we still alternate bedtimes. This week, DH is out tonight and Thursday and I’m out on Weds because we each have things we want / need to do. It’s not normally like that but it’s a busy week!

At the weekend, Sunday is usually a day where we’ll have a day out together / walk / family stuff. I’d say it’s less about negotiating and more about pre-planning with a little one in tow and other things to do.

Each of us actively wants to spend time with DS so there’s nothing else happening that would be more important than that.

I think you need to have a think about what it is you want as a family and have a frank conversation with him.

Sorry @walnut87 I see you have had those conversations! Hopefully things get better 😘

If I raise things he just goes on a rant about how busy he is

Then he needs to prioritise his immediate family over favours for friends. He doesn’t have time to do both.

He isn’t going to adjust to his child if he keeps avoiding the situation.

I too would dig into why he was weird when you questioned him.

OP, we had a baby in march. It's been a shock and has taken adjustments for both of us. I think you can expect more from your partner on a practical level. We've had to set some quite specific boundaries, such as who does such and such night wakes, what time he gets up on his days off, me having certain times undisturbed to do what I want, and around house work. I think the biggest shock having a baby is how much you suddenly have no time to yourself or to focus on your self. I think it's taken longer for my husband to realise this. I have got quite upset about it on a couple of occasions and I think that brought it home a bit, but I've also got that he does a stressful job and I can't expect him to take over the minute he gets home. I would suggest trying to talk to him in good moments, not bad ones. I would suggest trying to stay quite practical and specific about what you need. Sometimes it has helped me to say "on Wednesday I am meeting my friend for a drink and I won't be taking the baby" and then just do that. Good luck, I definitely think you can expect more from him in terms of working together to raise your child.

If you are going back to work, I think that it also a good point to start new conversations where you can expect more from him i.e. "how are we to manage xyz when I'm back at work"

As a parent of teens and someone who returned to work after Ds was born and then became a SAHM I have to say that I do notice that there is a lot of emphasis on "family time" where everyone comes together as a family, but what you also need to acknowledge is that if a woman is on maternity leave then she is building a relationship one on one with her child.

The man also needs to build this relationship one on one with the child too. He can do everything that the mother does unless the baby is breastfed.

Dh was completely hands on from Ds being born. That meant I breastfed Ds and he would take over, wind him, change his nappy etc because I was doing that in the day when he was at work.

It is hugely important that Dads learn the full responsibility of parenting. That means that they are left for periods of time with the child, working out how you go to the toilet, or prepare a lunch with a child that needs your attention. I had a lie in on one weekend day and Dh had the other.

God forbid if you were poorly and ended up in hospital for a few days he would have to know what to do and when to do it.

Dh has a great relationship with our sons, even now he will take one son with him if he needs to go somewhere (not in covid times) but if he is going to the shops he will take one child. I then spend time with the other one.

Dh grew up in a very traditional household, his Dad never changed a nappy, ever. His Mum did all the cooking, cleaning, shopping etc, he told me he never wanted to be like his Dad. He made a decision to be an involved parent.

Letsallscreamatthesistene why are you so invested in discounting the role of the endocrine system in the very specific type of depression that is post partum depression by putting the word hormones in parenthesis? Hormones impact everything. Thyroid function issues are down to hormones. Diabetes comes down to hormones. Without hormones animal and human life wouldn't function. Hormones play a role in all types of depression, and very specifically female reproductive hormones play a role in post partum depression, which only post partum females suffer.

There are different types of depression - why the bitter determination to claim the one linked to female reproductive biology for men? Its not a prize, not "worse" than the situational depression fathers and adoptive parents are known to be at risk of suffering when a baby or child joins the family. Those forms of depression can have a massive impact which isn't changed by calling them something they are not.