You know, all this talk about CV and avoiding eye contact is bothering me, because I did that.

[welliemum]

Have 2 dds who were extremely active, responsive, "wired" babies who found it difficult to wind down and go to sleep.

Both of them they were very responsive to eye contact almost from birth: if they were sleepy and you looked into their eyes, they immediately became wide awake.

At times they were feeding every hour during the day and every 2 hours during the night. I quickly learned that when settling them to sleep after night feeds my options were:

Holding them close with head on my shoulder, rubbing their backs, stroking their hair, rocking, saying "shhhhh" = reasonable chance of getting them back to sleep.

Holding them in my arms, doing all the above and looking into their eyes = reasonable chance of spending the next 2 hours pacing the floor with screaming overwrought baby, whilst almost hallucinating with exhaustion myself.

Am quite lentil-weavery and basically wore them for the first 10 months of their lives, demand breastfeeding, etc. If anyone tells me I emotionally damaged them by not making eye contact at night I'll be a bit

Has anyone else found similar with their DCs or is it just mine that were eye contact freaks?

OH I know all the editing, but she will have been around more then 2 days...and when she is there she causes damage...sigh...
I just hope that after this programme she will never be employed within childcare ever again....because she is the wrong person for the Job

Marina, I recognise your description re eye contact. When my daughter wakes up in the night (she's one) she sometimes does this thrashing about thing. Initially I thought this meant she was unsettled or upset and needed more cuddling. I have now worked out it means she's had enough of me and wants to go back to bed! I can see in retrospect the same behaviour as a little baby.

3andnogore, I agree with you about insecurity. It's awful that parenting has become such a source of anxiety for people when most people are probably doing normal things like loving their babies and cuddling them when they cry...

That programme really is ridiculous and has diverted attention from the real parenting deficit in this country - parents who are so disordered and immature and damaged themselves that active parenting of any sort (even the CV sort) is completely impossible.

Is the author Lynne Murray, Marina?

dd2 is now 15 months and points very firmly at her cot after night feeds. Whereas I'd be happy to cuddle a bit now that I'm less sleep deprived! You can't win...

yes I don't make eye contact for night feeds as usually have eyes closed in total exhaustion (and am doing it in the dark anyway in pathetic attempt to convince DS that really he should be ASLEEP) and also because he will break off, grin and giggle at me, and wake up completely (then arch his back, bellow, fling his arms about etc.)

the CV thing is completely different.

oh I know Margo...see it all around me...I really do...!
BUT....I still find it disturbing that such parenting style is "recreated" for entertainment value...especially as it is so similar to what does happen in some familoes...only that there is no system to it...but they react like that due to their experience, etc....

I suppose I do feel strong about the damage CV's methods could cause, because I have experienced such care for 4 month as a Baby (Hopsitalised in the 70's) and I did loose a lot of weight, despite getting nutritionally more then ever before (tubefed in Hospital) and I also formed a weird quirky habit of rocking myself to sleep....I am 37 now...so, it's been with me my whole life...and whilst it obviously hasn't got major impact on my life...it's still not brilliant, is it!

fullmoon...I think that is what parenting is about...not trying to fit your Baby into a mould, but to listen to your Baby and find out what works with that particular Baby...and then adapt your own parenting to that....I know that I parent my 3 boys very differently, because they are very different in character...there is no way I could have parented them the same!

my ms is like that fullmoon...7pm and he is ready for bed...

Haven't read the whole topic, but as far as I can ascertain, you just gently encouraged your baby to learn the difference between night and day. ie no eye contact, playing etc, at night. That's exactly what I did with both of mine. Interestingly, my breast fed ds was sleeping from 11pm - 7am at 8 weeks old without the need for strict routines or cruetly!

and, here is a thought
The Cont.Concept people, they don't play at night or don't have eyecontact...because, tehy sleep through it pretty much....

Honestly, it's about the severity CV is enforcing her rules and what the rules are...

Welliemum, that's her. I so wish that the book had been published when ds was a baby.

3andnomoregore, I wasn't having a go at all lentilweavers; (I'm frequently mistaken for one myself ) but at the simplistic nature of the debate. I imagine I would have been horrified had I seen the programme. However, thinking back to what it was like having a small baby and getting advice from a whole bunch of people who couldn't see beyond their own ideology, I don't think I'd have found the CV-bashing threads on here terribly helpful.

I think the OP took my comments in the spirit intended (but she can correct me if I'm wrong ).

I've only read the op and none of this verity something debate or seen the programmes

i was a totally child centred earth mother home birthy type and i know i did the keep things dark quiet and coolly unresponsive at night with dd1 can't remember the others tbh but she had sleep problems and she is a perfectly well adjusted 23 year old who loves me and her boyfriend...equally lol

I think a loving relationship is the basis for bringing up children myriad ways of achieving it

there endeth my only contribution to anything to do with this hooha or shoot me

I also don't make eye contact when trying to get my dds to sleep, otherwise, like you say welliemum, they just wake up again.

I give them plenty of eye contact the rest of the time though!

Did CV really say parents should not make eye contact at all,
not even during the day??
If she were on Mumsnet, 'trip trap' would be in order.

I recall, though, that Gina Ford was beaten with the same stick
when she was specifically referring to bed time.

The human face, in particular the mother's face,
is one of the most stimulating objects for a baby.
Hence the advice for bedtime settling.

It's just a helpful hint, that's all.

DaddyJ I think she says no eye contact while feeding or something like that. So no, it's not completely lunatic. Just borderline lunatic

Mind you, I used to find I didn't get any eye contact while bfing anyway because my greedy girl was always tucked right in there! Absolutely no interest in gazing at me . Even now (one year) she doesn't smile or look at me much when eating - it's too serious

During feeding as well? Borderline loon alright

i did no eye contact at night time either.
From her last feed that was it until the morning. If she did wake up in the night then it was a feed then back to bed. no eye contact, no lights, no talking. She was actually very good at night and never cryed and was sleeping through from 8 weeks. ( Am thinking it was more to do with luck than the no eye contact mind!! lol!)

I know dd is fine.

Haven't read other replies, but in response to OP - my son was the same (a 'spirited' baby ha ha) and I also did the 'no eye contact at bedtime' thing. Infact, when he was a small baby I had to drape a muslin over his cot to block out all visual stimulation to get him to sleep. No harm done.

"If anyone tells me I emotionally damaged them by not making eye contact at night I'll be a bit"

Honestly that is not people's objection to CV. Its more that she advocates leaving 10 day old twins outside in november to cry for three hours on their own. (With the possible risk of being eaten by foxes!)

"Holding them close with head on my shoulder, rubbing their backs, stroking their hair, rocking, saying "shhhhh""

That sounds lovely. Your children know they are loved. At night time it is common practice to have your eyes shut. Most mothers who follow the continium concept will have their eyes shut at night because the mother hardly wakes up for the feed. Ho