You know, all this talk about CV and avoiding eye contact is bothering me, because I did that.

[welliemum]

Have 2 dds who were extremely active, responsive, "wired" babies who found it difficult to wind down and go to sleep.

Both of them they were very responsive to eye contact almost from birth: if they were sleepy and you looked into their eyes, they immediately became wide awake.

At times they were feeding every hour during the day and every 2 hours during the night. I quickly learned that when settling them to sleep after night feeds my options were:

Holding them close with head on my shoulder, rubbing their backs, stroking their hair, rocking, saying "shhhhh" = reasonable chance of getting them back to sleep.

Holding them in my arms, doing all the above and looking into their eyes = reasonable chance of spending the next 2 hours pacing the floor with screaming overwrought baby, whilst almost hallucinating with exhaustion myself.

Am quite lentil-weavery and basically wore them for the first 10 months of their lives, demand breastfeeding, etc. If anyone tells me I emotionally damaged them by not making eye contact at night I'll be a bit

Has anyone else found similar with their DCs or is it just mine that were eye contact freaks?

[milliec]

Message withdrawn

[Amethyst8]

DD is now 13 months old and at around 8.00 pm she walks to stairs and starts shaking the gate to go to bed, also after tea goes and stands by the bathroom door getting more and more vocal till I give her a bath.

I must admit I made night feeds as dull as possible but it wasnt difficult as I was so tired. I do think that this is a really effective way of getting babies to know the difference between night and day quite quickly and not at all cruel. My DC are the centre of everything during the day.

Maybe I have been lucky but I did not really have to "work" at a routine for either of my DC. Certainly had no routine on feeding both were BF fed on demand, though I must admit I was very happy when they went on solids at 6 months in order to stretch feeds out a bit. I have a theory that with a little common sense from parents children will get themselves in to their own routines when THEY are ready to. I sometimes wish that I had not listened to so much advice. There were times when I went against what I felt so as not to develop "bad habits" eg feeding to sleep and with hindsight we would both have been happier if I had followed my instincts.

[3andnogore]

Hallgerda...fair enough ...
I don't think the CV bashing threads are necessary about information about parenting method generally they are simply there to bash a complete insane so called Baby Guru and her extreme measures...and extreme they are [shudder emoticon]

Daddy J....well....the way I interepreted the programme...indeed you are not meant to have eyecontact during feeding...I think you are just about allowed to have eyecontact with your Baby whilst changing them, but other then that you only have another 10 minutes a day for that, as that is the scheduled cuddling time that is allocated. The rest of the time your Baby is meant to be shut away asleep in it's room or shut outside ...with crying being ignored...tehrefore...well, all in all, there isn't much touch or eyecontact ...I think they worked out that a new parent will only have contact with their Baby for 4 hours a day....the rest of the time, the child is "put into the cupboard" so to say...

[TotalChaos]

thanks Welliemum

[welliemum]

I think it's all about context, TC.

After all, there are people with eye problems who can't make eye contact with their child at all and they're fine.

[TotalChaos]

these eye contact discussions make me feel a bit uncomfortable, as I have very bad eye contact myself. Doesn't mean DS wasn't/isn't cuddled/indulged etc but DS would tbh not have had vast amounts of eye contact from me.

[welliemum]

It's so interesting to hear other people's experiences, thanks for all the comments.

This has really made me stop and think. If eye contact is such a powerful stimulant for so many babies - what is the effect going to be, of denying a baby eye contact at all times....

I'm imagining a little baby desperately trying to engage with the people around, and being constantly stonewalled - not hard to imagine that this is going to do bad things to their brain.

[edam]

Really tired is right. Problem with CV is she objects to, it seems, all ruddy eye contact. 'Allows' ten minutes of cuddles a day. Even when she's feeding the poor bairns she's holding them at arms length, as if she finds them repellent (no eye contact allowed during feeds).

[Reallytired]

"If anyone tells me I emotionally damaged them by not making eye contact at night I'll be a bit"

Honestly that is not people's objection to CV. Its more that she advocates leaving 10 day old twins outside in november to cry for three hours on their own. (With the possible risk of being eaten by foxes!)

"Holding them close with head on my shoulder, rubbing their backs, stroking their hair, rocking, saying "shhhhh""

That sounds lovely. Your children know they are loved. At night time it is common practice to have your eyes shut. Most mothers who follow the continium concept will have their eyes shut at night because the mother hardly wakes up for the feed. Ho

[LoveAngel]

Haven't read other replies, but in response to OP - my son was the same (a 'spirited' baby ha ha) and I also did the 'no eye contact at bedtime' thing. Infact, when he was a small baby I had to drape a muslin over his cot to block out all visual stimulation to get him to sleep. No harm done.

[shoptilidrop]

i did no eye contact at night time either.
From her last feed that was it until the morning. If she did wake up in the night then it was a feed then back to bed. no eye contact, no lights, no talking. She was actually very good at night and never cryed and was sleeping through from 8 weeks. ( Am thinking it was more to do with luck than the no eye contact mind!! lol!)

I know dd is fine.

[DaddyJ]

During feeding as well? Borderline loon alright

[margoandjerry]

DaddyJ I think she says no eye contact while feeding or something like that. So no, it's not completely lunatic. Just borderline lunatic

Mind you, I used to find I didn't get any eye contact while bfing anyway because my greedy girl was always tucked right in there! Absolutely no interest in gazing at me . Even now (one year) she doesn't smile or look at me much when eating - it's too serious

[DaddyJ]

Did CV really say parents should not make eye contact at all,
not even during the day??
If she were on Mumsnet, 'trip trap' would be in order.

I recall, though, that Gina Ford was beaten with the same stick
when she was specifically referring to bed time.


The human face, in particular the mother's face,
is one of the most stimulating objects for a baby.
Hence the advice for bedtime settling.

It's just a helpful hint, that's all.

[belgo]

I also don't make eye contact when trying to get my dds to sleep, otherwise, like you say welliemum, they just wake up again.

I give them plenty of eye contact the rest of the time though!

[zippitippitoes]

there endeth my only contribution to anything to do with this hooha or shoot me

[zippitippitoes]

I've only read the op and none of this verity something debate or seen the programmes

i was a totally child centred earth mother home birthy type and i know i did the keep things dark quiet and coolly unresponsive at night with dd1 can't remember the others tbh but she had sleep problems and she is a perfectly well adjusted 23 year old who loves me and her boyfriend...equally lol

I think a loving relationship is the basis for bringing up children myriad ways of achieving it

[Hallgerda]

3andnomoregore, I wasn't having a go at all lentilweavers; (I'm frequently mistaken for one myself ) but at the simplistic nature of the debate. I imagine I would have been horrified had I seen the programme. However, thinking back to what it was like having a small baby and getting advice from a whole bunch of people who couldn't see beyond their own ideology, I don't think I'd have found the CV-bashing threads on here terribly helpful.

I think the OP took my comments in the spirit intended (but she can correct me if I'm wrong ).

[Marina]

Welliemum, that's her. I so wish that the book had been published when ds was a baby.

[3andnogore]

and, here is a thought
The Cont.Concept people, they don't play at night or don't have eyecontact...because, tehy sleep through it pretty much....

Honestly, it's about the severity CV is enforcing her rules and what the rules are...

[annoyingdevil]

Haven't read the whole topic, but as far as I can ascertain, you just gently encouraged your baby to learn the difference between night and day. ie no eye contact, playing etc, at night. That's exactly what I did with both of mine. Interestingly, my breast fed ds was sleeping from 11pm - 7am at 8 weeks old without the need for strict routines or cruetly!

[3andnogore]

my ms is like that fullmoon...7pm and he is ready for bed...

[3andnogore]

fullmoon...I think that is what parenting is about...not trying to fit your Baby into a mould, but to listen to your Baby and find out what works with that particular Baby...and then adapt your own parenting to that....I know that I parent my 3 boys very differently, because they are very different in character...there is no way I could have parented them the same!