Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

Wishing I weren't a parent: what works for a completely unmotivated child?

66 replies

JKRowlingSuperfan · 27/09/2020 19:10

NC'ed for this as I'm ashamed of it.

DD is 10. She's mostly a nice enough child with other people, though prone to tantrums and strops when everything doesn't go precisely her way. She's social, has friends, seems to be reasonably behaved at school (or at least she was till March, it's too early to say what difference the lockdown may have made).

But she won't put any effort into anything, doesn't care about anything, isn't interested in anything. With the exception of Minecraft and Roblox, which she would play all day and all night given the chance. It's just soul-destroying and pointless: she's bright and could do well, but doesn't care enough to try. Her writing's appalling, she has to be pushed to pick up a book (though she does like being read to), she's good at maths but makes silly mistakes because she's just rushing to get it done. She plays two instruments, and could be good at one of them if she tried harder: she does just enough practice to keep me from cancelling the lessons. I'm sick of the sound of my own voice telling her that it's her choice whether or not to play an instrument but if she chooses to play, she has to practice.

Lockdown made it much worse, before that we could get her interested in cooking or doing things around the house, but now she just says she'd like to do X "but not now". She doesn't seem to think ahead at all so it's hard to devise any incentives that work.

I'm tired. I've had a rough ride through lockdown, my job is safe but I'm managing a team that has been very busy and stressed. No-one except DH gives a damn about me, and he's also struggling with DD. I desperately wish I hadn't had DD: at the moment I look forward to the weekends, and they disappear in a series of fights, so I get to Sunday evening wishing I'd just stayed at work. I'll be honest, I don't like her any more. She's arrogant and rude to DH and me, and unless something changes radically she's going to be an adult who contributes nothing worthwhile to the world. I can't see how we're going to survive the teenage years if it gets worse than this.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
corythatwas · 29/09/2020 08:35

Another thing that stands out is how many activities she did use to do and did use to enjoy that have now been made impossible by Covid. This is a big shock for a 10yo. Grown women are on MN every day talking about how stressed they are by the restrictions imposed by the pandemic.

Yet you seem to want to think of this lack of activities as some kind of personality defect in your dd. Like she has to prove to you that she is an extra specially brave person who bounces back the next day and finds herself another passion during a national pandemic because you need reassuring.

Think again. We have all been knocked for six by this pandemic. She does have activities she enjoys, she just can't do them at the moment. Talk openly to her about that, admit that this is a bit shit, ask if she can think of something that she might like to try instead, but try not to seem anxious about it.

JKRowlingSuperfan · 29/09/2020 17:13

When did I say I care about how she reflects on me? She's not there for my credit or discredit. I care about the lack of motivation because in the long run it'll make a difference to her . She's a very different person from me, so her path will be different from mine whether she motivates herself or not.

Actually I agree with you about needing to sort herself out; this (Year 6) is the last year I'm expecting to be on her case about homework. From next year she's on her own and she knows that. This year we have the 11plus, after months of disrupted education, so I don't feel I have a lot of choice about being on her case if I care about her education (local options not otherwise good).

@corythatwas, you make a lot of good points, particularly about the pandemic. I am trying to calm down, and I posted in a particularly stressed and angry state on Sunday night after a terrible weekend of non-stop tantrums. It was post on here or walk out telling her that I couldn't bear to live with her any more.

OP posts:
CloudyVanilla · 29/09/2020 17:19

Do you think you could provide her methods of how to be organised for Y7 rather than doing it for her, in little bits throughout the year?

I'm a naturally disorganised person which is totally at odds with the fact that I love to be organised and feel much better with life when I am.

But it takes much more effort for some people; I can't live without check lists and to do lists. Lots of girls love stationary, could you get her a nice organiser or wall planner this year and help her get into the habit or recording homework deadlines, mock exam dates etc on it to help her focus and also approach it with a positive mindset rather than a way that could be perceived as negative? She could also add in set times to practice her instruments and then it is nice to see her free time so that she can then reward herself (after you have double checked for now) with stuff she wants to do.

Taking a positive and not self deprecating approach to our weaknesses is often the best way to overcome them. Maybe she is old enough now to start doing that rather than being chivvied along and causing misery for you

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

SparklingLime · 29/09/2020 17:33

I realise that you’re venting, OP, but I found this chilling to read:

“She's arrogant and rude to DH and me, and unless something changes radically she's going to be an adult who contributes nothing worthwhile to the world. I can't see how we're going to survive the teenage years if it gets worse than this.”

and

“ From next year she's on her own and she knows that.” (yes, I get the context of school work.)

This about a ten-year-old child.

I wonder how your DD’s mental health will survive the teen years with her mother feeling like this about her. Writing off a kid in this way suggests your own issues, which will likely be impacting her behaviour (whatever else is in involved).

Please get help for you both.

changednamealways · 29/09/2020 23:16

I want to offer encouraging words but this makes me so sad and angry. She's a 10 year old child finding her way in the world and you would have to walk out on her if you didn't write a post on Mumsnet? You're literally moaning about her as if she's an adult who's done all this to hurt your feelings or something. She's the one struggling here, and you as a mum just want to come on an anonymous site to complain about her rather than support her. No wonder she acts up when her mum 'doesn't like her anymore'. I think you need to look at yourself first and consider if you are the perfect human and then tackle her behaviour. She is who she is but she'll never be happy if you don't show her love despite tantrums over silly things. The more you push away the more she will act up. Bless her heart

MsTSwift · 29/09/2020 23:24

I have been so impressed by 2 friends whose 12 year old dds are really not like them at all. Watching them letting go of how they think their dds “should” be and accepting them for who they are is impressive .

One friend intelligent thoughtful loves reading with totally non academic scatty dd (but with lovely other qualities). Other friend a hard working sporty medic with a dreamy dd who struggles with maths and science and hates all sport - utterly uncoordinated .

MeridaTheBold · 30/09/2020 00:12

Yy I think it's a sign of great parenting if you can accept and nurture your DC for who they are rather than trying to mould them in your image.

seayork2020 · 30/09/2020 00:32

Although my son has his moments where we feel like throttling him he is generally a good kid so I can't comment on the behaviour side.

But he lacks motivation big time!!! so to cut a very long story short we are finding we are having to get him through his homework and assignments more than we should (he is in Y7 high school) and as much as people saying 'don't do that for him he won't learn' is great in theory it won't stop us helping him with his schooling

So what you are writing for the schooling side is my son exactly! except he is getting there so we are gritting our teeth and working with him to make small changes he can stick with.

Oh sorry one point is because of Covid he is not really doing scouts but hopefully will go back to that but he is not allowed to do any extra curricular activity unless he is motivated

We are willing to get him through school but we are not adding anything else unless he does it we are doing team sports/music etc. for him as well

So sorry not sure this helps you really but all I can say is start with small changes maybe

seayork2020 · 30/09/2020 00:35

@seayork2020

Although my son has his moments where we feel like throttling him he is generally a good kid so I can't comment on the behaviour side.

But he lacks motivation big time!!! so to cut a very long story short we are finding we are having to get him through his homework and assignments more than we should (he is in Y7 high school) and as much as people saying 'don't do that for him he won't learn' is great in theory it won't stop us helping him with his schooling

So what you are writing for the schooling side is my son exactly! except he is getting there so we are gritting our teeth and working with him to make small changes he can stick with.

Oh sorry one point is because of Covid he is not really doing scouts but hopefully will go back to that but he is not allowed to do any extra curricular activity unless he is motivated

We are willing to get him through school but we are not adding anything else unless he does it we are doing team sports/music etc. for him as well

So sorry not sure this helps you really but all I can say is start with small changes maybe

sorry I can't edit, we are NOT doing team sport/music etc. for him I meant to say
18eggs · 30/09/2020 00:42

@BertieBotts

She sounds very much like DS1. He is nearly 12. It is getting better - since he's started at secondary he'll come home and suddenly say he wants to start magic tricks, or skateboarding, or something. We encourage everything because for years, since he was about 4 all he's cared about was gaming and TV and to be honest it's boring! I don't always have the money to rush out and buy him a full set of stuff but we look for second hand items or possibilities to practise - share/borrow a friend's while he works out if he wants to do it or not.

I don't think this is about being ambitious. I am not ambitious. But it's worrying to see a child have such limited interests, and I think it negatively affects your relationship with them when you feel like there's nothing you connect over. Then that becomes a vicious circle where your relationship is not as it could be, they don't want to listen to your suggestions, they're moody, it becomes unpleasant and unfun to spend time with them, that leads to you avoiding it, etc. You also know IME if your child is acting very differently to other children their age.

Minimising screen access has helped. I have also spent some time ensuring that some of his screen time is used in a different way - we play games together, because I do think it's important to try and meet your child where their interests are, I have also got him interested in coding and he does some of this, but he resents and will resist both of these things if he suspects it's eating into his "real" screen time.

I find when I set up activities for him to join me in, it works better than just trying to spend unstructured time together or waiting for our relationship to naturally improve because we end up bickering.

He has a diagnosis of ADHD (non hyperactive) - this was picked up only because I was diagnosed myself and so questioned it in him as he is very similar to me. He doesn't have any official support/therapy/treatment for it because it doesn't really affect the areas that those things target (school, antisocial behaviour). But I do think (because I know how it affects me) that it's behind this seeming lack of interest in everything - I don't think it is actually that he lacks interests, because given sufficient motivation and someone meeting him halfway, he will pick up various things and give them a try. It's just that when it's totally up to him, he will go straight for the least-effort option and the least-effort option tends to be games or TV (youtube).

I'm mentioning this because as I understand it, this is all likely related to the production and consumption of dopamine. Dopamine is one of the brain chemicals involved in reward and seeking rewarding behaviour - it's highly implicated in addiction, and I think this is HUGELY relevant. The creators of platforms like YouTube and games like Roblox specifically design their products in such a way that they deliver lots of little, constant "rewards" which pings off your dopamine producing brain bits (technical term :o) adults experience this too with things like Facebook - all of that constant notifications, never ending news feed, novelty seeking etc all feeds into the same kind of thing, and that keeps you on their platform generating ad revenue for them. Children can be more susceptible to this because their brains are still developing. We found Roblox really really bad for it actually, to the point we banned it, and in our case there weren't any benefits to offset that, unlike Minecraft which was also quite collaborative and creative, and Fortnite which is sociable and at least has set end points (stop after X number of matches).

The other aspect of dopamine is motivation - when you're low on dopamine you will often feel like everything is too much effort, like you can't be bothered, find it difficult to concentrate, and starting anything feels overwhelming, so you just won't bother. It's a bit like (if you remember pre kids) when you live alone and let yourself get too hungry, so you can't be bothered to make a proper dinner, you just want to eat biscuits instead. Social media, youtube and some kinds of games can be the equivalent of "just eating biscuits" - nothing wrong with biscuits! But if that's all you ever eat then it's not going to make you feel very good in general. And the social media isn't REALLY filling up your dopamine receptors, just like biscuits don't really fill you up when you're hungry. Better, longer lasting sources of dopamine are more fulfilling interactions which we perceive as rewarding - achieving things, making social connections, making something, laughing, feeling accepted, all of these kinds of things.

I mention this in conjunction with ADHD because they think in ADHD it's like the dopamine levels are constantly low because it is being drained away too quickly (and stimulants work because they make you produce more of it). I'm not saying ADHD is your issue, maybe it is maybe it isn't, it is worth reading how it affects girls BTW, but that some kind of similar process might be happening, where she is going for a lower effort kind of activity and/or feeling blocked from starting a higher effort activity because she is struggling with something, especially as you say it's got worse during lockdown, because many, MANY adults even are struggling with these kinds of feelings in lockdown and it can be because we are being starved of many of our usual sources of dopamine, and because we're not consciously aware of that we don't know where else to look to ensure we get enough.

So basically, action plan:

  • Affirmations/reminders when it's annoying you: She's not doing this on purpose. She's not doing it to annoy you. Kids do well when they can. If she's not doing well it's because she can't. Not because she won't.
  • Automated time limits where possible. It cuts out the arguments and negotiation attempts, because this kind of behaviour can mimic addiction, so they will never be fair or reasonable negotiations. Make it clear, no budging. If you find her cheating or somehow breaking the restriction in order to get extra time, the device is banned for the next day or two. If you are getting the whole rest of the day taken up by attempted negotiations and/or complaints that the screen time is over and this does not reduce after a few days of her realising you're not going to give in this time, the screen time might be too much - reduce it.
  • Prepare to fill up SOME of her time with activities chosen by you in which you participate in together. Make some of it her interest - her game, her instrument, reading together (we do one page each/I read 2, he reads 1). Fully participate :) If you find it tedious, set a time limit for yourself - let her know you will do X with her for 20 minutes, then stop. Be fully present and attentive during those 20 minutes.
  • For other activities you choose to fill her time, this can be a bit more passive - I bought a jigsaw and started setting it up on the living room table, we do bits of it when we get time, we don't always do it together. I have started arranging weekend activities that we all do as a family, not every weekend, but most (3/4). Often just a walk. He is allowed to play Pokemon Go on the walks, but often doesn't because his screen time is already finished for the day. I find TV series I think he would enjoy and we watch them together (preferably "live" - no binge watching - the discussion time in between episodes is important).
  • Provide accessible materials for things she may choose to do independently - books she really wants to read, apps/websites/books relating to her instrument which may inspire her. Have a look at the home ed term "strewing" - this can be a really useful technique, but essentially what you're doing is meeting her halfway, and taking that first step for her which she may be blocked from doing.
  • Work on that future planning, as that IS a skill which may be lacking and can be built on. She may complain she is bored now, but what can she do now to ensure she won't be bored tomorrow? What could she be doing now if she had thought to set it up before? (One example in our house: Playdates only ever happened spontaneously, I have finally managed to get him to arrange a playdate in the future if he cannot manage one right now).
  • Useful reads (maybe)
Smart But Scattered by Guare and Dawson Raising Human Beings / The Explosive Child - either has the collaborative problem solving model in. By Ross Greene. The Whole Brain Child by Siegel and Bryson.

All of this creates less room for negative interactions and more room for neutral and positive interactions which helps build the connection and relationship between you and will probably help the most.

I work in schools. This is one of the best posts I have ever read in my 10+ years on here.
MinnieJackson · 30/09/2020 00:43

Hey,what's your beef man? We know snowflake obsidion! Ingots, iron ore, agate and many MANY more. We know about twenty types of trees 😄If she's doing her school work then I'd say crack on x

StargazyDrifter · 30/09/2020 01:42

Plenty of good advice on here already.

Just wanted to add that, on one of the indulgently early Christmas threads here, there was a suggestion of making a “doing advent calendar” for/with children. At 10, you could probably involve her in choosing some of the daily activities, which might also help with the planning thing.

Also, I recently met an 11yo who won’t read fiction but loves biographies and factual books about her particular hobby. Is there such a thing as an age-appropriate biography or “story” of whoever created Minecraft? Or something suitable linked to one of her instruments? The Royal Opera House shop online might be a good place to browse for non-fiction about music. Perhaps even something to read out loud/as a family book club?

Finally, could you two/three volunteer for something? Whether that’s helping clear a local park/river or writing letters to care homes... it may be that, if the focus is on helping someone else, she could draw motivation from a different place.

poorchurchmouse · 30/09/2020 18:54

No advice but lots of sympathy, I’m in a similar situation. I did very seriously think about leaving and being an EOW parent as that was the most I could cope with. I’m hanging in there but it’s so hard with someone who seems to dislike the mere fact of your existence.

hoven · 30/09/2020 19:04

If you dislike her so much and wish you'd never had her contact social services so she can be placed with foster or adoptive parents

BertieBotts · 30/09/2020 20:38

eggs glad to hear I am on the right track Blush sometimes it feels like bloody stabbing in the dark! When people say parenting is hard you never imagine it's like this! Confused

JKRowlingSuperfan · 30/09/2020 21:23

You were really helpful, @BertieBotts, and I'm very grateful. There's been some helpful advice on here.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page