Potty training he'll

[YukoandHiro]

I absolutely hate it. Feels like it will never, ever end.

Started EIGHT MONTHS ago. Mostly dry (not at night obviously) but accidents still happen, and poos are a nightmare. Still get soiled pants, but mostly 3-4 hours of on/off potty and toilet freaking out and streaking bottom before it happens. Or it doesn't happen and comes out in the nappy in her sleep.

We lost an opportunity to go dry overnight as we couldn't remove nappies due to night soiling. Now night nappies are sodden again so need to wait for that to be ready.

I've tried everything - star charts, chocolate, incentives, presents, ignoring, praise etc. It's worse, not better, nursery days.

Also point blank refuses to pull up her own knickers and trousers and screams with rage when we try to encourage her to learn.

It doesn't hurt her. She's not constipated. Had all this professionally checked as she has multiple allergies too.

Age now 3y 2m. She will be in reception class at 4y 1m.

I'm not really looking for advice tbh. I've asked before (multiple times) and tried everything. I've spoken to other parents, her allergists, doctors, the health visitors.

Am expecting a new baby in 3 weeks and I am just so fucking over it. I've had endless reserves of patience for this through lockdown and I'm finally reaching the end of it.

Ugh.

Bump?

That sounds really tough. Its so frustrating when it's that hard.

Maybe she just isn't ready yet. I know when they are late starters, it feels like every other child who is so much younger gets it straight away.

If your daughter isn't ready there really isn't much you can do to force it. Maybe go back to nappies for a bit and try again in a few months. I found it less stressful to deal with nappies for a bit longer than constantly clearing up accidents.

Both of mine were fairly late to potty training. We tried a few time on and off from the age of 2 with my eldest, but she didn't really get the hang of it until she was about 3 and a half. She was fully dry throughout the day within 3 days but wasn't dry at night until she was about 4 or 5.

My youngest was also really late and wouldn't even try on the potty until she was nearly 4 . However she then was dry day and night within a week (barring a few accidents). She has just started school now (just gone 4) and is managing fine.

Maybe a break from it for a little would help you both. Good luck, hope it gets better x

Thanks. I don't want to go back entirely as basically we are dry at home and wee accidents at nursery are only when she's v engaged/distracted which I think is normal at this age.

I've tried offering nappies for poos - she knows when she needs to go but just freaks out when it comes to releasing - but she refuses that too.

I'm basically out of ideas in terms of how to help her. I thought returning to nursery after lockdown would help with peer pressure but it doesn't seem to have done much.

Rationally I know she won't be soiling herself at university, it's just hard not to find it exhausting with so much going on!

I feel for you. I hated it so much as well. In retrospect I see that I started too early with ds (at 2 1/2) spurred on by a fellow mum telling me that it was a week of hell then done. She wasn’t showing off, that was just her experience. Took him a year. A YEAR. However, when something clicked and he was dry by day, he was simultaneously dry at night (by and large). Not sure how common that is, though.

But it was awful, awful. But it really won’t be forever.

I started at 2.5 too. Definitely started too young because of peer pressure. I will not make that mistake with the newbie

I wrote this after spending all morning ushering her on and off the toilet as she knew she needed to go but wouldn't.
Went into the kitchen for two mins to make a cup of tea and now she's shit her knickers.
Argh. It's a psychological block for her and I don't know what to suggest next.

You need to go back to nappies/pull ups for a while. If she's not ready, she's not ready and the stress of it for you and her will not help at all.

And night times can't be trained, its physiological, she needs to produce certain hormones. My son has been dry in the day for over 2 years but still sometimes wees in his sleep at night. So be it. It's no hardship to put a pull up on him.

3yr 9 month old twins here who piss themselves all day long. Been 10 months with one, 5 months with the other. One insists on only pooing in a nappy. I spend all day every day encouraging people on or off the toilet, mopping up wee and doing laundry I feel your pain. No words of wisdom just solidarity.

But she's been 90 per cent dry in the day for a couple of months now and asks to go, she just sometimes forgets at nursery.

It's just the poo we're dealing with.

I'm not sure letting her go back to nappies with weeing would help at all. It would be far too confusing for her.

Don’t bother with night training that’s pretty much down to a hormone, doesn’t matter if a 3yr old wears a pull up at night

I know you say you’ve asked and tried various advice but have u tried the oh crap
Method? Literally so many MNs advocated it and it really was fantastic.

As for not being ready- she is ready, she’s getting mixed msgs by stop starting, having the odd nappy still. I really do suggest the oh crap
Method and give up nappies altogether for the day.

I hear you @Bubbletrouble43 - we will get through this!

I think the reason it's started stressing me out now is a) third trimester/knackered/new baby to deal with soon on top of all of this and b) she's so young in her school year so I don't have the luxury of 18 months to fix this before it's going to embarrass her in reception class. Plus they expect her to be dressing/undressing by then and that's going to be a bit ask. She didn't walk til she was 2 and didn't jump til just before 3. She genuinely can't dress herself yet. Just hope that comes quickly.

Have you considered starting her in reception a year later? So at 5y 1m instead of 4y 1m? Might take the pressure off somewhat.

Presuming you're in England, you can take a gander at the 'Flexible schopl admissions for summer borns' Facebook group if you're interested. I think it's much easier in Scotland, not sure about Wales.

Yes @OnlyFoolsnMothers we used the Oh Crap method when we were starting. It just wasn't seamless for us.

*school not schopl

Sigh

I don't want to hold her back @FourPlasticRings as her speech and language is ahead and she's already starting to read (very basic words) so intellectually she'll be fine and I want her to be stimulated. I just have some anxieties around the social expectations which are high for a just turned 4yo. I've been in touch with prospective schools this week to ask for their policies on young in year children and find out how they are specifically supported

Oh crap sorry trying to make light. I really do advocate going back to the start- not saying it’s easy, clearly this is harder for some children.
I scrap reward charts etc, have you just left her on the potty with say an iPad or the tv around the time she would usually poo?
Btw I have an August baby and do panic about her being physically ready to start school so young. We are working on the getting dressed, sort of one item at a time. We tackled kickers first and “bow goes at the front”...thank god all girls knickers have a bloody bow on em

@OnlyFoolsnMothers I don't put her in nappies in the day, I sometimes ask if she wants one to do a poo in (in the bathroom) if she's been holding for more than 2 days and it's upsetting her. I don't want her to get constipated and the dr said it was more important to encourage her to let it out any way she wanted rather then be insistent on potty and end up with blockages.

It's so confusing.

*do a poo in a nappy in the bathroom, that should say

Glad I'm not the only one who has August anxiety!

I'm planning to buy a dressing up box for Christmas as hopefully that will be a fun way to practice

I think once new baby is here she’ll do it, mainly for attention. That’s what happens with my son anyway! Then every time I sat down to BF eldest would need a wee

It's not actually holding her back, just not starting her early, though that is the norm in this country, I'll grant you. England's school starting age is 5. And they should be able to differentiate appropriately for her- you wouldn't worry a September born would be bored, would you? It's also the social and emotional demands of school, rather than the academic, that cause an issue for summer borns much of the time. But fair enough, just thought I'd mention it as a possibility. Very best of luck. Make sure you know your rights- lots of schools will try to tell you that they can't change kids who've soiled themselves and all sorts of other stuff. Some even say they expect kids to be toilet trained, but that's not legal- it counts as disability discrimination. I'm sure she'll get there eventually, try not to stress too much about school.

You know what, I have read a bit of theory on this and I just don't think that the intensive Oh Crap method works for all even if it is amazing for some.

My DD was dry by 2.5 but I actually introduced the potty for fun way before that at 18 months because she had seen it at a cousin's house and was interested and she loved practising, so she did that in pull ups for six months and just got really comfortable with it, stopped pooing anywhere else and gradually held on for wees, so I started extending her and then she became trained around 2.3.

Now, I know that lots of people would hate that as a method, because you spend a lot of time with the potty, but it fitted with my daughter's interests(!) and natural independent streak and I went with it so it wasn't a big thing. It helps that I have a childminder who was happy to support this and I work 3 days a week so I wouldn't expect it to suit all parents.

I think that the issue often is not necessarily starting early, it is starting too early to expect them to get it properly within a week. And expecting them to be done quickly and move on. Then it is stressful for everyone.

Maybe go back to more of a practising stage for the poos without too many expectations if you can. And build up confidence that way? Even if you have to just get her to sit on the potty in front of the TV when you expect one to be coming, just to relax her and prove that she can do it without thinking about it too much? Then reward her for her effort?

@FourPlasticRings I know what you mean, but actually my friend whose daughter has just started reception and is 5 next week was bored to death in nursery and can already read and write quite well. My friend wishes she could have started school earlier. So it's all swings and roundabouts really. Unless you have a February born child it can feel like a minefield

That's really interesting @wishcaptainbarnaclewasmyboss - and it's exactly what my mum said. I think I did put a bit too much pressure on early on.
Trying to relax about it now.
I think I'll definitely be more casual/slow about it with the next baby