Older children and the "getting a job" conversation

[shackbleep2000]

Hi there

DD and her BF finished university a couple of months back. They've moved in with with myself and my partner, who has been stepmum to DD for 10 years (not always an easy relationship), a deal we were ok with, no rent/bills, just them paying for some of their own food, with the expectation that they would be working to get jobs and get themselves towards independence. We talked about this at the time, and agreed that my partner and I would occasionally ask how it was going with the job search, but we were expecting it to be tough and wanted to not be too in their faces about it.

We said we'd review the living here arrangement 6 months after they moved in, or earlier if it seemed to be not working. They said they'd be looking for any job, not necessarily their dream job.

At the 3 month point, DD has had a few interviews, nothing concrete has come out of it yet. BF, no interviews we know of, and doesn't seem to be doing that much by way of searching, mainly doing computer games. Day-to-day its kind of ok - they seem to keep themselves mostly to themselves.

My partner and I are feeling a bit taken for granted at this point, esp by him.

Obviously I'd like to be as supportive as reasonable towards my DD, and not wreck my relationship with her.

We have reached the 3 month point and feel its time for a more serious chat. Any ideas/suggestions on how to approach this would be really appreciated!

Thanks in advance and apologies for long posting!

I’d be applying pressure to work. If you are funding them I think you are entitled to know what job searching consists of. They may make excuses, but unless you live in the middle of the Highlands and they don’t drive, there are jobs to be had.

I say that as someone living rurally with a just graduated daughter whose permanent job has been deferred. She took two weeks off then started looking and had a job within another ten days, after a three interview recruitment process. She starts on Monday on £23.5k. Not a fortune but better than nothing and will tide her over until her permanent job starts in February.

If they can’t find the sort of job they want, there are plenty of jobs in care work, agriculture, some restaurants and retail.

@CherryPavlova - thanks for that!

We're in a relatively small town, but within 30 mins by bus there are two pretty large towns. They don't drive. DD has passed her test and I may help with semi-funding a car for her one she's found something, since I did that for my other daughter and would be fair to them both.

it maybe worth giving some guidance abit of tough love, it can be discouraging and when being supported it’s easy to know there’s the safety net so it’s easy to give up. Give them some suggestions of getting in contact with recruitment agencies etc.

I would have that chat and insist that they are to treat job-hunting like a job: spending a set number of hours on it every day. That was the rule we set for both of ours.

I wouldn't say there are plenty of jobs in retail etc just at the moment; ds is looking too (though he has a job) and it's not that easy. But that is no reason to do less job-hunting.

Are they signing on?

The job centre will soon be asking for proof of job searches again, so tell them they have to sign on.

I wouldn't be tip toeing around the subject, I assure you. They do not need to be coddled like children. They are adults and need to start acting like it. The boyfriend sitting on his arse playing games all day is totally unacceptable. He should be out looking for work every day, for any job he can get. If you don't get very serious about this you may find yourself in the same situation a year from now.

In the meantime, I certainly hope they are pulling their weight with laundry, housework, cooking, etc. You're not running a bloody b&b, ffs.

Sorry doesn’t work for me, looking for a job needs to be a full time job- start at 9am! Appreciate it’s extra hard at the moment but all the more need for effort. As for the bf, he’s in someone else’s home, if you aren’t providing financially I expect him/ them to do all the cleaning etc. Free rides don’t work for me

Why is this SO common?

I know of a few very similar situations to yours OP. You're like the parents in those situations, too bloody soft. They're not children. I'd make it clear that they both get jobs or the free ride is over and can leave. My Dsis has to put up with this from her not so delightful SC and it's utterly ridiculous. Why should everyone else work to support the lazy bastards?!

I can't understand why they are not paying you anything? They could sign on and give you that.

It is a very difficult time, job wise, but they are basically on holiday at your expense?

When you have ' the chat' I would not mention that you are supporting them as it will just get their backs up and put them in the defensive - leave that for the conversation if they don't do anything after this talk.

In the first instance I would emphasise how it is best for them that they are employed as soon as possible. Better long term prospects, self esteem, money in the pocket etc. You can help them with advising about CV's applications if that's what they want.

If they've just left uni, suggest they sign up as online tutors. My DS is only 1st year uni and has spent his hols doing this.

Why is this SO common?

I have found that far too many parents continue to treat their children like children even though they are well into adulthood. Mummy and daddy still manage everything for them. It's a very sad testament and doesn't do these "children" any favours. These same parents then wonder why their child is still rudderless and useless when they're in their 30's.

@cherrypavlova - £23.5K is a very good grad starting salary!

I think you were foolish to be so lax in the first place!

Yes it’s tough out there for all jobseekers at the moment but I really find it hard to understand why so many mners refuse to expect their ALREADY ADULT dc to take some bloody responsibility!

And I can’t help but think a lot of the time that these mners have spoiled said children throughout their childhood or else the NOW ADULT children would have enough self respect, common sense and LACK of entitlement to say to these parents something like:

“I really appreciate you giving us a safe home free of charge, I will be doing all I can to get a job any job and in the meantime I shall contribute in the way of household chores and contributing what I can financially”

AND acting accordingly.

My dd has recently moved to the town she’ll be attending uni in, within a fortnight she had a part time job and is still looking for another to maximise income, is letting people she knows there that she will be looking for seasonal work for the holidays and to let her know if they hear of anything, and that if they want any babysitting/dog walking etc done she’s available. She’s applying for various voluntary positions that will add to her relevant experience too. She’s in the midst of (because she’s had to wait for various paperwork) applying for discounts, railcards etc

It utterly bewilders me that a certain type of parents on here do pretty much everything for their dc until they’re 18 and often longer and then expect them to miraculously and without guidance mature into capable independent adults overnight virtually.

These same parents then wonder why their child is still rudderless and useless when they're in their 30's.

Totally agree!

The boyfriend sounds like he’s plain taking the piss! I think it’s possible words need to be had there. Like hell would I put up with someone who isn’t family being put up for free and doing sod all either around the house or job search wise!

If you don't get very serious about this you may find yourself in the same situation a year from now there are threads on here with parents in the same position 5/10 years down the line not to mention all the cocklodgers!

Could well be a good idea to highlight to your dd too that boyfriend is lazy and asking if she wants to be running around after him as a partner/wife and god forbid as a knackered mother!

Personally I also disagree with adult children not paying anything towards their keep! They don’t live for free, even if you don’t include rent/mortgage and council tax (which I would - theoretically at least if you weren’t housing them you could be in a smaller property and paying less for these) there’s still water, gas/electricity, groceries - and remember not just food but also cleaning and paper products and toiletries etc (I remember one friend of mine who was too soft who eventually lost her shit over the crazy amount of tin foil her dds living in boyfriend was using! Nothing dubious he had a very odd way of cooking most things in the oven wrapped in copious amounts of foil - but he’d never tell her when they ran out which was every few days and a last straw moment came when she was prepping for Christmas Day and he’d used half a roll without saying and she had to do a dash out before the shops closed on Christmas Eve!), and if he’s gaming a lot presumably that means he’s benefiting from your WiFi, also your tv packages?

Nope! They should be paying something.

but they are basically on holiday at your expense? exactly!!

[quote mrwalkensir]@cherrypavlova - £23.5K is a very good grad starting salary![/quote]
I’d not think it was ‘very good’ but it’s OK until her proper job starts. She found it by ringing around and emailing local companies and asking for employment. It’s in executive search, which she did an internship in, but it’s not what she wants longer term. It giver the chance to save a bit before February, it’s better than a gap in employment and it’s likely to be more fun than sitting around at home doing not very much.
We all need a sense of purpose and achievement.

@CherryPavlova - not sure why we need to know what your daughter is earning. I guess you just want us all to be impressed. Well done to your daughter - especially as she is going to be an even higher earner from February.

After only three months I wouldn't say anything especially considering how difficult everything has been for several months. Your agreement was to review in six months and you're only halfway there. You say your daughter has had a few interviews so she is trying. As long as everything is amicable, you have enough room in your house and daughter and boyfriend look after themselves, why worry? It will all happen for them sooner or later but these are not easy times.

I must admit I don't understand why boyfriend had to move in with you as well as your daughter but that's your business.

[quote wentawaycameback]@CherryPavlova - not sure why we need to know what your daughter is earning. I guess you just want us all to be impressed. Well done to your daughter - especially as she is going to be an even higher earner from February.[/quote]
Yes, meanwhile I expect you’ll still be rude.

It was obviously (to anyone not embittered) about disputing the notion that it’s impossible to get any job, let alone jobs that pay enough to be worthwhile.

After only three months I wouldn't say anything especially considering how difficult everything has been for several months.

When the boyfriend has doesn't done fuck all aside from playing video games, I sure as hell would be saying something.

This is why parents should encourage their kids to get jobs as soon as they are legally able to ie age 14-15. McDonald's and local grocery stores etc aren't expecting amazing resumes from kids and as long as you're well presented and are able to turn up on time you get the job. Then when you get to be older you already have had a few jobs and something to put on your resume to show you understand what it is like to be in a work environment and can do what the boss says and turn up on time etc. If you are 20 something and never had a job what can you put on your resume? Professional jobs don't want to know about you doing scouts or being in your school band which would have been fine when you were 15. They expect a professional resume with jobs and answering selection criteria. No wonder they have trouble getting a job.

I think OP needs to take a closer hand in what they're doing - help them edit their resumes and cover letters, and all for a list of who they've applied for and what stage each application is at. After the six months they need to start paying rent. If they don't want to pay they can move elsewhere - maybe mooch off the boyfriends parents for a while.

@ItsReallyOnlyMe - do you have a link to the organisation your son is working for, please?

I would treat them like the adults that they are.

I would say that between 9 and 5 on weekdays, your home was their free office (but not play space!). Thus, they have to be up, dressed and either out or looking for work. As in any office, they cannot have an expectation of privacy in ‘working hours’ and need to be doing something productive, either seeking work or helping around the house.

If they don’t like the above, they need to leave at the 6 month mark. If you can afford it, I would offer them 3 months living money once out. To give them time to think.

Infantilising adults creates stress for everyone and, ultimately, no self respect and possibly MH issues.

There are still online jobs. Don't pay hugely well, but are flexible on when done, so can attend interviews too. I know people doing online content moderating, checking for accuracy and teaching English. They have graduated university, so should be fine to handle the standard needed.

She starts on Monday on £23.5k. Not a fortune but better than nothing and will tide her over

You know why that's quite an arsehole thing to say, so I'll just leave it at that

My eldest two both graduated this summer. One is going to do a masters, one is starting a job next week. We were very clear that we would be happy to support them as long as they were actively looking for work/making other plans and being helpful adult members of the household - cooking, laundry, etc.

It's great that your dd has had interviews already. Hopefully they've been helpful to her and she'll get offered a job soon. I think you should be able to discuss what job-seeking they're doing without wrecking your relationship - it doesn't have to be a big sit down interrogation, just part of regular conversation. I probably asked my dd1 a couple of times a week if she'd applied for any interesting jobs, but it was just part of our normal chat.

Good luck - I hope you get somewhere with it soon, because once you start feeling a bit taken for granted, it can be very easy for resentment to build and that path does risk damaging your relationship with your daughter.

If I were one of your children CP I would be mightily pissed off at the amount of information you give out about them all over Mumsnet.