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Parenting

For free parenting resources please check out the Early Years Alliance's Family Corner.

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Original poster

witnessing child abuse, what should i do?

64 replies

Bubblz · 04/10/2007 20:39

Last night I went to my local Sainsbury's and heard a woman calling her daughter. The girl, who was about 13 years old, didn't respond. When her mother shouted abuse at her for it, the girl told her mother that she hadn't heard her. The woman grabbed the girl by the neck, threw her against a wall and said she was going to wring her f*?!ing neck. The girl managed to get away and ran into the supermarket. The woman had another daughter with her, probably about 2 years old, whom she treated just as appallingly as the older child.

I have never before seen anything like this, so after I'd scraped my jaw from the floor , I managed to catch the older girl on her own. She had a red mark on her neck where her mother had grabbed her. I didn't want to get her in trouble with her mother, so I hurriedly told her I'd seen what her mother had done and was very sorry about it. I also told her to keep her head up and hold on to the thought that she's a wonderful and beautiful child. She was very gracious, she smiled and thanked me.

I cried bitterly all the way home because that poor child was going home with that woman to be abused again and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it. I have thought of calling NSPCC but I don't even know the girl's name. I've even considered going back to Sainsbury's to ask if they can identify her from CCTV footage, but then what? I don't want the children to end up in care, courtesy of yours truly, yet at the same time they don't deserve the kind of life that they have now.

I don't know what they have in terms of support from family and friends. The woman was with a female friend of hers who witnessed the abuse but carried on as if nothing had happened. If someone that close can turn a blind eye, then those poor children must be going through hell. Please help, I can't get them out of my mind.

OP posts:

NotAnOtter · 04/10/2007 20:41

i wish someone like you had been around when i was a girl
please act

LaDiDaDi · 04/10/2007 20:41

Unfortunately I don't think that you can do any more although I'm sure that what you said to the girl will be appreciated.

I don't see how social services would be able to identify the girl.

Sorry.

sKerryMum · 04/10/2007 20:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

spookthief · 04/10/2007 20:43

Weird isn't it that if the woman had physically manhandled a stranger there would have been people queuing up to call the police. Her child, no bother.

This isn't a dig a you btw. I'd have done the same. I suppose you could have said something to the woman but you'd have likely got your head in your hands to play with.

Nothing you can do now I don't think. Also, although very extreme, a snapshot of someone's life doesn't necessarily mean that she behaves this way all the time. (fingers crossed)

massivebigpumpkinface · 04/10/2007 20:44

the poor girl
there is no harm in calling the nspcc and they could tell you wether they could go with the cctv footage lead....

BandofMutantMonsters · 04/10/2007 20:45

Um, sKerry, isn't it enough that she did it once??

To get her round the NECK, hold her by her throat. ??? That's awful.
They might be able to get her car reg from CCTV, was she in a car???

BandofMutantMonsters · 04/10/2007 20:47

yes, she might have had the day from hell, but to do that for not answering the first time, bit extreme imo.

admylin · 04/10/2007 20:48

I've seen something like this in Luxumburg in a cafe - a mother was so down right nasty and hands on aggressive to her small son (he was maybe 5)and the thing is she seemed very angry, aggresisve and not approachable. It was awfull and the scene stayed with me for ages but it's hard to intervene as skerry says and who could help?

digitalgirl · 04/10/2007 20:56

I agree with spookthief it can't hurt to call NSPCC and see what they say. I don't think the police would do much though.
My step-mother beat up my little brother and covered his face in bruises. We reported her to the police and SS got involved. She was cautioned. If that had been an adult pressing charges I'm sure she would have got a lot more than a caution, yet a defenseless child and she gets away with it. They did nothing about her waving a knife around attempting to 'commit suicide' in front of her children till they screamed in terror, if this had happened outside of a domestic situation she would have been sectioned.

sKerryMum · 04/10/2007 20:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Bubblz · 04/10/2007 21:07

Hi guys, I appreciate the responses. I understand the whole snapshot-of-their-life approach , but there is nothing that would condone that kind of behaviour.

I spent twenty minutes trying to get the girl on her own and she didn't strike me as a brat. She did everything that her mother barked at her to do and still got abuse for not doing it quickly enough or getting the wrong brand of antibacterial wipes, etc.

At one point the little girl asked her mother for something while her older sister was getting a balloon from one of the checkouts about ten yards away. The mother swore at the toddler and pushed her forward so she almost fell. When the toddler screamed, the mother started shouting at the older girl and accused her of pushing her sister. When the girl said she hadn't even been near her sister, her mother told her to f*!? off. The girl just shook her head resignedly. It seemed to be something she was used to. I saw and heard it all and I'm sure I caught a few flies in my mouth in the process.

When they finally got to he checkout, the toddler climbed onto a metal frame that's used for holding shopping baskets. Her mother didn't warn her to be careful and the girl fell off, hurting her hip. In contrast to several concerned looks from other shoppers, the woman just laughed and told the girl to pick herself up, that would f*!?ing teach her to do things like that, the stupid child.

You'd think that, being in a supermarket, the mother would at least try to be civil to her children. If this is the good face she shows to the world at large, I'd hate to think what goes on indoors.

OP posts:

TheStepfordChav · 04/10/2007 21:10

It sounds as if the woman couldn't give a flying f**k that you, or anyone else, heard her shouting abuse at her child, or saw her grab the girls' neck. So it's normal behaviour for her, so of course she does it all the time; this isn't a normal person. But if you rang SS you wouldn't be able to say who they were...

FWIW the DD, if she's 13, probably knows that her mum is out of order; she will know that her friend's mums aren't like that. They get told about childline at school.

pneumalifenewname · 04/10/2007 21:12

Mother might be depressed. Whatever, the whole family probably needs help. To be honest though, the whole system is under resourced and if it helps you deal with not being able to do much think of it like this (appalling to have to say this): If this relatively minor abuse goes unreported then that will free up resources to perhaps help a child thatis being severely abused.

Is all wrong of course and I always believe in grass roots approach to things but the money isn't there for that sadly.

Cocobear · 04/10/2007 22:00

I think you should try ringing social services. There may be nothing at all they can/will do, but who knows, maybe there is. Maybe someone else saw all that and rang, too. Maybe the checkout clerk rang, and had a name from a debit card or something. You never know.

I wonder though, what would have been the best course of action? I honestly wouldn't have known what to do either. Any ideas out there?

Stepford's right, the 13-year-old would know Childline is an option, but may be too scared of the possible outcomes to contact them. But as adults, we know that woman should be reported.

mrsmarvel · 05/10/2007 11:29

I think we should all be following notanotter's advice, it appears she knows from first hand what to do.

"i wish someone like you had been around when i was a girl
please act "

The fact that social services are under-resourced is not that girl's problem. How would you feel if something terrible happened to her and you hadn't acted.

OrmIrian · 05/10/2007 11:41

Ahhh sh*t Poor girls. Since I had children I find that things like this really haunt me. In spite of the fact (or maybe because) I can also know how exasperating children can be and how relentless parenting is. I tried to do something about a little girl I saw being manhandled and shouted at on the way to school once. I rang the NSPCC who were lovely and helpful but as I didn't know the name of the child I couldn't do much. Rang all the schools and the police but no good.

What I found really sad was that the woman at the NSPCC told me that children often don't cry much after this kind of thing (I commented that the girl didn't) because it happens so often they don't react as normal kids would. Chilling.

mrsmarvel · 05/10/2007 11:43

I would suggest speaking to the Sainsbury's manager. It is possible that they have a child protection policy and this kind of incident may be able to be reported. I wouldn't know though, praps NSPCC would.

mistypeaks · 05/10/2007 11:49

How awful poor child. I just have to go and cuddle my children now.

mrspnut · 05/10/2007 12:09

How are social services going to find a child that they don't know the name and address of?

TBH - They aren't going to do anything in this case, and whilst it will make the OPer feel better, it won't change anything.

Far better is to make sure that the children you know and see regularly are safe and happy because if people don't report concerns about neighbours and friends then children will continue to suffer.

mrsmarvel · 05/10/2007 12:11

And how would you feel if something awful happened to that girl and you had made no attempt to make anyone aware of her problems mrspnut?

princessmel · 05/10/2007 12:17

I agree with the people who are saying you should call ss. They may not be able to do anything but you just dont know for sure.
Hope this is sorted. Its so shocking to think of people doing this to their children

mrsmarvel · 05/10/2007 12:27

I was in a park once and there was a suspicious looking man who was really eyeballing my children. I didn't call the police until much later, dismissing it as being not really evidence etc, but when I did call they told me that I should have done it straight away because the man may have been on the sex offender's register.

lalaa · 05/10/2007 12:42

call SS. The children might be on the child protection list thing they have, where they keep an eye on kids who they think might be at risk of abuse. Not very many people have one child of 13 and one child of 2, so they be known to SS if there is an existing problem.

mrsmarvel · 05/10/2007 12:43

Would supermarkets have a child protection policy I wonder?

Original poster

Bubblz · 05/10/2007 12:46

I have contacted the NSPCC and there's not a lot they can do without info to identify the family. I'll go back to the store and see what can be done by way of CCTV etc. If that doesn't work, I'll start shopping there a lot and probably at the same time just in case I bump into them again. That mother obviously needs help and support in raising those children, and those girls deserve to have someone stand up for them. NotAnOtter I will do everything I possibly can to help them.

OP posts:

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