Almost 8 and won't poop in toilet

[2cats2kids1manchild]

My daughter is turning 8 in a few months and still won't poop in the toilet. She is ok with wees during the day and has been day trained since around 3ish. She used to suffer from constipation when she was little and that isn't a problem anymore. She will only poop in a nappy or pull up. She is still wet at night so wears a nappy to bed . So she mostly waits until night nappy is on and then goes in it or she will go first thing in the morning in her nappy. We have tried rewards bribery and taking away the nappies but she will just hold it for days and make herself sick. We can't even get her to sit on the toilet with a nappy on which is what her paediatrician advise us to do. She has no other issues aside from being very stubborn and sometimes defiant. My husband and I can't even have a few days away without the kids because his mother refuses to change our daughter when she poops. And our daughter will only let my husband and I change her anyway. I feel like a failure as a mother and don't know how to fix this. Most people I know who have kids who refuse to poop in the toilet their kids work it out by 5 or 6 at the latest

I would go to your GP to discuss this and request more appointments with a psychologist. Maybe the conversation with GP alone would be helpful in addressing this - it will probably be an embarassing conversation for her to have with a professional figure, and if it is stubborness then seeing the shock/concern from that 3rd party may prompt her to try to change. If she has more serious difficulties well then you will hopefully have the referral to the psychologist as well.

I would also look into PDA as she sounds as if she may fit that profile.

She is very intelligent. She's artistically gifted and does well at school. But can be very defiant. Well behaved mostly at school but a nightmare at home

OP this is not normal behaviour for a neurologically typical 8 year old. She may have additional needs AND be intelligent, artistically gifted as you describe her. And many girls with autism mask successfully at home and then “let go” at home.
Either way, I would push for a referral.

Sorry - mask successfully at school not home

OP I used to 'hold it' when I was your DDs age, for days and days at a time and for no particular reason other than habit and stubbornness I suppose (I didn't like 'going' anywhere other than home).

In the end everything got so 'impacted' that I ended up in hospital having an enema. Did it do me any lasting damage? No. Did the absolute embarrassing horror of it mean that I never, ever did it again? Absolutely.

Take the nappies away, and if she continues to hold it feel free to use my story as a warning to her of what she'll face if she carries on. Best of luck x

I'll assume this is genuine. Have come across something similar, and it was suggested that the splash of the poo hitting the water was alarming. TMI, I know. Previously the child had been ok, but there was a particular 'incident' where the previous explanation made sense. Mucho bribery was implemented, particularly involving a staid grandparent. Twas all resolved in the end.

Go to your GP and ask for a referral to the continence service. You need support with this ASAP.

We had this but only up to age 5 , it’s a control thing. There is nothing else in her life she can control plus she is using it to control you as well . It’s probably subconscious , although at 8 she may be becoming aware .

Firstly you need to put her in the driving seat but simultaneously make it very clear that this needs to stop. Paradoxically she needs to be both in control but also know that you have absolutely got this , that you are the grown up and you are absolutely not going to waiver , that way she will feel secure.

We found bribery difficult with our ds but basically you have to give her an incentive that is overwhelming and then say she can have it once the loo problem is cracked . We went cold turkey as well , she might withhold but if you are prepared you can mitigate that .

In the end it was over pretty quickly , what I had not realised was that by letting him be in control I was actually making him feel insecure . He needed me to be strong and safe and reassuring and absolutely immovable and then he felt safe in giving up what had become a sort of contort blanket.

Caveat - I am not a psychologist, and I'm not suggesting your daughter had Asperger's, just that it's one possibility worth exploring.

Intelligence has nothing to do with Asperger's, and it's a condition which is seriously undrdiagnosed in girls because girls seem to be better at "masking" than boys (I have several female friends with Asperger's who were only diagnosed as adults - all very intelligent women, scientists, writers, musicians).

Incidentally one thing they all tell me is that masking is immensely draining - one says one of the biggest reliefs of her diagnosis has been being able to join support groups and socialise in situations where she doesn't have to mask - it's like a ton weight being lifted.

Now think of this in connection with a child -exhausted by the struggle to fit in, but without adult ability to rationalise. It's quite likely they will "act out" in peculiar and unpredictable ways because of the strain.

Good like OP - I think trying to get a psych referral is the way forward.

Have you spoken to the doctor yet OP? It sounds as though your daughter has encopresis. There are support mechanisms to help with this, but a doctor can give you more help and advice.
Does she suffer from leakage, do you have any issues with impaction or is she just going daily but refusing to go in the toilet?

Errr psychologist now ... because if she's not already got deep set issues then this is going to become a real lifelong issue, you are the parent, if I'm honest leaving this til 8 is already too long, you need to fix this ASAP and if you're not prepared to do it yourself then you need a referral to a psychologist

This is a psychological issue. You hint at problems with your husband, and I wonder if there isn't a more systemic matter at play here, and it is presenting through your daughter in this way. It is a form of withholding, and it is likely emotional - a way of seeking control over circumstances that feel out of control to her. So you may need to address it by also looking at your home life, and not just your daughter.

I would see if you can get another referral to a specialist and in the meantime just carry on until you get some help . If she has a phobia about this , it will be just as difficult for her as any adult who is terrified of spiders or flying or anything else and she has to confront it everyday .
She will soon be of an age where she will want to help herself so it may be more productive this time x

So it’s two years since you sought professional help. Wow OP that’s so neglectful. You are actually enabling this behaviour because it makes your life easier. That’s terrible parenting. What do you think will happen when she starts at high school, when she wants to stay over at friends etc. I just can’t believe this is a serious post.

@2cats2kids1manchild

My sister
My best friend
And my
Son

Have all been poo witholders as children and were all later diagnosed with aspbergers.

I’d be pushing for a referral to see what’s going on internally for her

If it helps, I sorted my son out by teaching him all about the gastrointestinal system and reframing it as rules... I bought him Lego when he had been every day for a week

There's definitely a referral pathway for children with this problem. She's slipped through the net, which is a bit concerning. She should never have been discharged from the psychologist or whoever she was seeing two years ago. This should be constantly followed up until the problem resolved! Something doesn't ring quite true. In my honest opinion, and in the nicest possible way, you guys aren't coping, and a parent who hasn't dealt with this up to now, should most likely be having some sort of external additional support, whether that's in the form of a community nurse, hospital consultant, health visitor or social worker.

It's tough, and my wee boy has issues as a toddler so I feel your pain. Please please OP. Rather than post this to a bunch of strangers on the internet, for the sake of your daughter's dignity, contact your gp on Monday morning and go through the correct channels to get this resolved as soon as possible.

You posted

"She is very intelligent. She's artistically gifted and does well at school. But can be very defiant. Well behaved mostly at school but a nightmare at home"

Some people on the autistic spectrum are well behaved at school (ds was) as they have to adhere to rules and conform. This takes a lot out of them so they are ready to blow by the time they get home and it all comes out. Also girls on the spectrum can mask behaviours and girls do present differently to boys on the spectrum.

I'm not saying your dd is on the spectrum but it's something to think about.

@mrsjg

You posted

"She is very intelligent. She's artistically gifted and does well at school. But can be very defiant. Well behaved mostly at school but a nightmare at home"

Some people on the autistic spectrum are well behaved at school (ds was) as they have to adhere to rules and conform. This takes a lot out of them so they are ready to blow by the time they get home and it all comes out. Also girls on the spectrum can mask behaviours and girls do present differently to boys on the spectrum.

I'm not saying your dd is on the spectrum but it's something to think about.

I know that and I guess it is possible. She has good social skills so it isn't something that I thought she could have

Our pediatrician prescribed sennacot syrup so that our daughter wouldn't be able to withhold - we realised it was withholding rather than constipation when she held it in for a weekend away after being regular at home on movicol, and another time at my mum's when she wouldn't/couldn't go until I got there. We think it was about feeling safe. That did the trick.

But as others has said my dd is currently awaiting asd investigation (and is very intelligent and social but very emotionally unaware/immature) so I suggest you also start the ball rolling on that too (it is a long road to investigation/diagnosis)

Autism is so different in girls. I'd push for help from your Gp. Most kids that age are desperate to be like everyone else and are acutely aware of any differences. There's got to be more than stubbornness to this

Nothing in my post that may show a starting point for the issue OP? Discount if not.

I think some posters are being very harsh here. You are not a bad parent. I know of a child who had this problem and it was solved by using a toilet step. It is not so easy for a child to push when their legs are dangling. You probably already do this, but I thought I would mention it just in case.

This is really difficult.is she in school? How does it work if she in school?
She wearS nappy in school?
How she manages this in PE class or swimming classes.
As PP said above, kids at 8 yrs want to be no different to their peers, does she not mind this ,,indifference?
My daughter is 9 yrs old and I can see she wants so much be like the girls in her class, I can not imagine to wear or her want wear nappy.
Sometimes when my daughter acts like a little kid and being naughty and plays up we say she acts like a baby and we say jokingly we will put her in the nappies and give her milk bottle- as a JOKE.
She screams NO No no never ever.
I can’t imagine no 8 yers old want to be taken as a baby, normally it’s the opposite, they want to be teenagers already, at lest my daughter wants to be and keep asking me if she is already pre teen?

OP not been seen on here since Saturday, so not sure if she's watching.

Can you blame her ?