9 year old ds is a compulsive liar

[16more]

My son will not stop lying about absolutely everything and is so unbelievably rude and argumentative. At first it was silly little things. Now it’s getting more serious and the lies are getting bigger. I’m so worried about how it’s going to escalate as he’s only 9 what’s he going to be lying about when he’s 13! He gets caught out and digs himself even deeper. Because of something he lied about on Friday, which was the worst yet, he had to stay in his room on Saturday which he was devastated about but still hasn’t learned his lesson as today we’ve had battle after battle about the lies. I really don’t know how to handle this. He just doesn’t seem to care about consequences - only in the moment. I keep thinking I must be doing something seriously wrong or he must be in a horrible environment but I really can’t put my finger on what’s wrong. Last night we had a lovely chat and spoke about his feelings etc and I thought we’d turned a bit of a corner but nope. Sorry this is so long, it’s not even the top of ice berg really.

I’ve obviously not thought rationally about it. I just don’t know what could be causing the behaviour as it’s not just lying we have an issue with although it is the main one right now. He is so unbelievably rude and constantly answers back all the time. So it makes it really hard to just calmly explain to him that he’s done something wrong.

@Fanthorpe i think he does have self esteem issues when it comes to friendships. He must have felt left out and jealous that his friend is allowed to ride his bike anywhere and he can’t. I totally agree about getting to the root of it. Just don’t know how

16more it's good that you are thinking rationally about it now, it's really important.

The parents who enter into a spiral of ever harsher but random punishment at 9 are the ones for whom parenting teens is an endless battle of wills to be won.

Think about the whys and keep communication open.

Don't react with big punishment before you've thought rationally.

Sending him to his room for 30 minutes so you can both think about what just happened and how to sort it out, then reminding him you're on the same side and everyone - parents and children - makes mistakes, but now you need to work out how to put it right - is a good start.

Perhaps, knowing him as you do, letting him ride his bike unsupervised was a mistake you made. It wouldn't be for all 9 year olds but you can tell him you realise he still needs you watching him because he hasn't learnt to stop and think before doing something silly. So you're going to watch him while he plays out in future and unfortunately that means it can't happen as often.

Then you can ask him what he should have done in the situation and why.

Then talk about the lie and why it's such a big problem.

My Dad lied constantly, if you asked him what he had for breakfast he would lie about it, it was pathological and usually was designed to impress other people, but sometimes he just lied for no apparent reason. My brother is the same and I know I have a tendency to exaggerate, but I’m self aware enough to try not to
DS also lies, but probably because of my upbringing I can spot them immediately (most of the time). What I do is tell him that I know he’s not being entirely honest or say “ is that exactly how it happened?” In order to give him an opportunity to change his story before he digs himself in too deep. If he won’t I impose a punishment such as no PS4 or similar and tell him that any time he wants to come and talk to me and tell me what really happened I am happy to listen. I try to avoid the words “truth” and “lies”
He lies just because it’s part of who he is (DD doesn’t) and there has to be some sort of genetic element because he never met my Dad and rarely has contact with my brother but as it’s something I’m aware of we've worked really hard on it and he’s not too bad. I think a big part of it is that he knows no matter what he’s done I will be on his side. He may get into trouble or be punished but whatever he’s done I will help him sort it out if necessary.

I agree with telling him about boy who cried wolf and applying natural consequences.

You have to explain to him about trust.

If you can trust him you can let him do more grown up things. If you can’t trust him you can’t let him. Then back this up with natural consequences that are related to what he has done - so he went further than allowed and then lied about it, consequence is he’s not allowed out on his bike for (say) 3 days because you cannot trust him.

And it’s not just about being allowed to do stuff - if you can trust what he says then you will believe him when it’s important to him. So for example if something gets broken and he says it wasn’t him, he will want you to believe him yes? Well you will only believe him if he has a record of telling the truth not lying.

If he earns your trust there are lots of benefits for him. If he loses your trust he will not be allowed to do things and not be believed when he wants to be.

I think you need to explain why he can’t or isn’t allowed to do things in a way he relates to. I also think you probably need to go easier on him - if sending him to his room is the standard punishment for everything there is no incentive to improve. Try a reward system - put 10p into a jar everytime he says the truth and take away a set amount for the lie. At the end of the month whatever is left is his.

I agree it’s hard. I’d talk specifically to him about the events where he lies and ask him about how he feels. For example if he was out in his bike and it was suggested that he went off at what point did he make a decision? Did he think at that point that it was the wrong thing (and why it’s the wrong thing- not just that you’d said no), or did it only occur to him later?

Try not to speak in generalisations, like ‘it’s wrong to lie’, because we all know that’s not true.

I used to say to my kids that if you’re in a group and something is suggested that you don’t feel is ok for you the chances are that others feel the same, but aren’t confident to speak up. Just remove yourself, and it’s likely that others will follow.

Id work on finding things where you can relax together and have fun, where he makes some decisions and feels trusted.

The rudeness and backchat needs to be dealt with calmly, tell him it’s not acceptable to speak that way, you’d love to hear what he has to say but not when he is speaking like that.

With my children, they were always punished far more if they lied than if they were honest and they knew it,

So if they did something (say deliberately broke something), I used to send them to their rooms to think about their answers (so they didn't lie off the cuff), and then would make it clear that if they were honest there would be natural consequences to their actions, but if they lied they would be punished.

So, like the time my daughter put magnets on the tv and broke it, because she was honest about what she had done, she had consequences on that she wasn't allowed to have the tv on when we weren't around... but she didn't get massively punished because she was honest.

In fact only the other day, I was talking about this to my sixteen year old daughter about the magnets and other naughty things she had done. And I said to her but surely she must have lied to me, and she replied no she never had because she was too scared to.

If the lying is the worst punishment they get, they stop the lying. Trust me, my daughter was no angel, could be a right madam, but on the whole she didn't lie. Just don't force them into a corner, give them time to think before they tell you, so they can rationalise that it will be worst if it's honest. For me, my daughter was always allowed to do things that her friends were allowed to do, so long as she was honest and I could trust her, she knew if she broke my trust she would be allowed out with friends to town etc if I didn't trust her. So that's the carrot.

Punishments were then natural consequences of actions - break something deliberately pay for it to be fixed etc.

Long winded and waffle but you get the point.

Is DP his dad?
If not, what age was DS when DP came into his life?
I'm anglin towards the possibility that he needs attention and has found a way of getting it, even if it's negative.

If you knew where he had been, why did you put him in a situation where he would lie to you? If you knew he had impulse control problems why would you let him out unsupervised on his bike? If you knew he has issues around doing things he is told not to, why let him spend enough time by himself near forbidden items that he covers himself in paint? And what happened in the few hours between that and him confessing the truth?

I find his behaviour unremarkable for a small child who appears not to be watched much and set up to fail with tests. I would look to your parenting rather than some pathological cause in him

DP is not his dad. His dad is a complete tosser who was also a massive liar and I wonder if he does get it from him a bit. Ds was about 4 when we met I think. And we moved in together when he was 7.

Oh of course. Massive projecting of issues with your ex onto your child!

@llets wow. Just wow.

I mean lying isn't hereditary, but the tendencies towards poor impulse control can be, and he will have learned behaviour too. Was his dad scary? A lot of the time kids lie because discipline is too harsh or they are scared of a parent. Does he still spend time with him?

Sorry OP but @llets may have just hit on the underlying issue. Dig deep before pathologising your DS. Get some support for yourself so you can better manage your relationship with your DS.

Lying isn’t hereditary but some of the personality traits that lead people to lie compulsively are, so yes your EX could be a factor here OP

So. Op what did you do when your son told the truth about the paint???

Lying is very hard to tackle.

He lied about the bike because he wanted to go to the next village and he obviously is feeling his freedom cut off.

In that situation I wouldn't stop biking. I would explain that it's a pandemic, he isn't allowed out with next door. He can cycle up the street and next door can cycle up the street. That is fine.

Then add..... as he yet isn't mature enough to control his impulses and tell his friend he can't go off to the next village you will supervise him.

Same with going in garden. He can go. But you'll supervise as he hasn't yet learnt to control himself.

Tell him it'll just be until you can see he's matured enough to do it alone.

It means that there is a consequence but rather than him needing to hide stuff from your cause he's not allowed he has the incentive to show you he can behave and earn your trust.

Try not to get into the negative cycle of behaviour - especially at the moment.

OP haven't been able to read every post but personal family experience Leads me to suggest that you might need to consider ADHD.

I’m sorry OP but if his dad left when he was 4 you don’t get to blame anyone except yourself for his lying. You have received some good advice here but if you are projecting your ex’s issues on him you absolutely need to stop.

Won't give details but my ds committed a serious crime as a teen. He denied it to my face and oh he was convincing - hell was he.
He had lying issues as a dc. Wish I had taken it more seriously. Get your ds help op. Before you are powerless to help him anymore..
Ime.

@GrumpyHoonMain I really am not blaming anyone for his lying thanks. It was a passing comment and obviously I know he hasn’t got it from his father. And his dad did not leave when he was 4. His dad is very loosely still in his life when it suits him. Which I am also Aware is probably making him bottle some stuff up.

@BCBG a couple of people have mentioned this. I guess as no ones mentioned it in real life I havnt really taken it seriously but I will read up on it and see if any other stuff flags up

Please do!! Also read up on it - my teen was not diagnosed until first year of A levels after GCSEs went badly wrong and so did anxiety and depression. I wish I had pushed harder when DC was younger but I wrongly thought it was just kids that couldn't sit still - I had no idea what it actually is. My teen ended up developing Oppositional Defiance Disorder or ODD, mainly as a result of unidentified and unsupported ADHD. The good news is that she now takes Ritalin in stable doses every day and is off to uni to read Law! So there is light at the end of the tunnel, but my advice would be rather than punishment and blame you need to push for answers to the behavioural issues you see.

I’m another one who thinks you shouldn’t punish. You’ll just cause more conflict and he’ll lie even more to save himself from punishment.
Ds2 would lie a lot too. Probably still does a bit if he thinks he can get away with it but he’s a lot better.
I never punished him for lying just told him how insulted I was that he would blatantly lie, told him that I knew he was lying because it was obvious and most people can tell a liar so it wouldn’t do him any favours. In fact, it would make people outside the family turn away from him.
Every time he lied, I’d just tell him off about it and let him know that he wasn’t fooling anyone.
I read him the boy who cried wolf too.
I always praised him for telling the truth and I would let him know that I appreciated the truth.