Worried about DH's attitude to child safety

[Popacatakettle]

Hello, first time post here from a longtime lurker. Worried and really not sure what to do next or if anyone else has experience of this type of situation.

DH and I have a nearly 7 month old DD. Safety has been a sticking point between DH and me since she was born (e.g. DH thought baby’s room should be higher than SIDS guidance - I’ve made sure it isn’t), but especially now as DD becomes more mobile.

Yesterday, DH again put DD sitting propped up in her now-outgrown Moses basket (the open type, with no hood) on its rocking stand a few feet away from him, while he did some washing up. The other day I found DD in the same situation while DH had left the room, apparently “for a minute”. Apparently he’s put her in the Moses like this a few times lately while I’ve been in the bathroom or resting due to (temporary) illness.

Because of her age and the fact that she can roll, I feel it really isn’t safe to put DD in the Moses when it’s on its stand (the rocking type), whether sitting or not. Even if he’s just a few feet away, I feel an accident could happen quickly, especially if DH is doing another task. I have told DH this and that we should put the stand in the garage.

DH thinks I’m totally overreacting and that what he was doing is fine. He also wants to keep the stand in the house as he doesn’t want the basket to touch the floor at any time, or for DD to be near the floor, because floors are dirty - DH says this is cultural (he’s originally from a country in Eastern Europe, whereas I’m British). DH also doesn’t want to store the Moses on a small table as “all our tables are full” (!) apparently. It must be stored on the stand. This worries me as I fear DH might do the same thing against, though he says he won’t.

DH says that regardless of safety guidance, DD wouldn’t be able to fall out of the basket while it’s on the stand because the “laws of physics” means this isn’t possible (DH is neither a physicist nor an engineer). He just doesn’t think it’s physically possible.

DH says he’s happy to accept that it’s not safe to put DD in certain situations (e.g. sitting up in the Moses basket) but that I have to “prove” to him that’s it’s not safe. Apparently he will accept the opinion of childcare experts but is reluctant to do so from countries such as U.K., US, Germany etc as he feels they are of a certain cultural ‘type’ that goes too far with H&S. Somewhere like Italy he might accept, apparently - not that either of us speaks the language - as he feels they are less ‘extreme’ about H&S there.

We recently bought a lovely, age-appropriate swaying chair with a harness that DD usually enjoys, but DH says it’s too heavy to move from the living room to the adjacent kitchen - even though I manage to do it fine and I’m literally half DH’s weight.

Yes, I’m sure we can find a safe practical solution (buy a playpen?) that we can both accept. But my concern is that DH is putting DD in unsafe situations and isn’t supervising her the way that he should be. There have been similar issues in the past e.g. putting DD on the sofa in her bouncy chair while he plays games on his phone - not even holding onto DD or the chair. Also carrying DD up and down the stairs in her bouncy chair. He just doesn’t accept that these situations are unsafe and is very resistant to my concerns. He says he just can’t think about safety the way that I do because he hasn’t grown up with it.

I just don’t know what to do. I’m worried about the situations that could arise not only now but in the future. DH works evenings so is often at home with us during the afternoons.

‘It is not ok in my culture to get angry with your partner whenever they do even the smallest thing differently from how youd like. It feels much more like being an assholw than a cultural difference. No one wants to be in a relationship with an asshole.’ You have a culture too you know. Where you’re allowed an opinion. He does sound like it’s more about being a controlling asshole than any cultural influence.

Thank Guppy and Timisnotaline. I agree and will try to work this angle.

Also, this isn't quite the 'Controlling Eastern European male' stereotype that others might assume. MIL's wishes seem to hold sway in the family (DH says FIL gave up long ago). DH takes after MIL very much, and knows it.

Maybe you could try that in your house, you are the MOTHER, just as when he was growing up MIL was the mother.

MIL doesn't have to dominate two houses.

MIL's wishes seem to hold sway in the family (DH says FIL gave up long ago)

For me, this was part of the solution. DH's patriarchal knob tendencies were ultimately responsive to my incessant calm assertiveness - because in his culture, mothers always trump fathers when it comes to child care.

I'm not saying it's ideal, and I certainly had to do a lot of soul searching before deciding that this situation was worth perservering with.

I had to learn to stand up to my MiL too. I love her, but she lives very close by and tends to take over. I have learned to be loving and friendly, but extremely blunt.

AnnaMagnani - I agree. So many times, I've felt that at the root of it, the problem is that DH reverts by default to whatever MIL would think/want if she was here. Whereas my parents wouldn't want to express a strong opinion, since they are not DD's parents - DH and I are. My parents also accept that due to research etc (e.g. into SIDS), childcare practices have moved on.

DH told me that if MIL was here, "there would be arguments" if she saw DD's room was so 'cold' (19 degrees). I'd already explained to him about SIDS.

DH only really backed down on the room temperature thing when I looked on a parenting (mums) forum based in his home country and after translating previous threads, could see that the general opinion was that room temperature should be 16-20 degrees or 18-20 degrees. One poster cited her paediatrician's advice, which was the same.

Until then, DH had told me many times that in his home country, 16-20 degrees would be considered very cold for a baby's room. I told him I suspected that some of the things he says are cultural differences are actually generational ones due to him absorbing MIL's way of doing things, and other older relatives. I wonder about this with other things too that he says are cultural (and agree that his culture doesn't trump mine).

Sometimes it really does feel like I'm living with MIL by proxy.

Strange how this has morphed into a MIL thread. Is this the MN version of Godwin's Law?

What I should have said is that my parents wouldn't want to force their opinion. They certainly take child safety seriously, so would have strong opinions on DD's safety. I haven't discussed this matter with them as nothing they can do or help with due to lockdown, so I feel it would worry them unnecessarily at an already difficult time.

You and he both sound totally obsessed with his words, his opinion, his thoughts, his domineering behaviour masquerading as ‘culture’. Imagine how his power games will impact the child once she’s old enough to have opinions, walk on eggshells at his sulks, etc.

Everything you've said about him is highly indicative of coersive control/domestic abuse. Reach out to your health visitor and tell her everything you've mentioned here, she will be trained in behaviors like these and should be able to guide you and help if you want to leave the relationship.

I was in the same position and had minor issues with my partners attitude to baby safety. It escalated into bulling behavior towards our 2 year old and bordering on emotional child abuse. There were also instances of 'rough handling', leaving him in the bath unsupervised and being very strict. I urge you not to let it get this far. The sulking, controlling behavior is part of a general pattern of abuse towards you and your child.

It would be useful for you to keep a diary on your phone about what he does that you think is unsafe to dd or controlling to you. Brief notes are fine but document the dates when things happen and make sure he can't access it. It will be very useful if you decide to leave him. And please speak to your health visitor! Feel free to pm me if you need any help or advice or a chat

I can't see how this can get better. Especially as you've got a DD, he'll spend his time trying to control her as well as she gets older. You need to protect her before she has an accident.

Why on earth are you with someone who doesn’t value or trust anything about you or your culture?
Is there anything good about him because this relationship just sounds like a recipe for ongoing disaster, especially with a baby.

Timeforsinging81 - thanks for your reply. So sorry to hear what you and your DS have been through, but it sounds like you are in a much better situation now, which is good to hear.

I haven't seen any evidence of rough handling by DH - his attitude is indulgent and wellmeaning but (IMO) careless. He is very fastidious around some aspects of DD's care e.g. when I wiped DD's face with a damp flannel he asked if I would dry her hair (with the hairdryer) afterwards. I said no, as DD's hair was only slightly damp at the edge of her hairline and we were in a warm room (20 degrees). Again, this fastidiousness with certain things (often things to do with clothes/hair and what you or I would probably consider to be rather unwarranted worries about somehow catching cold) is very much like MIL.

A playpen is the perfect solution, not on the floor (no idea why that's a problem but as you said cultural) and safe, as they get very mobile a playpen gives you a safe place for when you need to answer the door, go to the toilet etc. Personally I let mine lie on the floor though

Timeforsinging81 - I have already thought about contacting HV and have threatened to on previous occasions. It's just I need to pluck up the courage because I suspect it will break up our family. DH has said before that what happens in the family stays in the family, and will consider this a massive breach of trust. I understand all the reasons why this view is completely wrong. I know I need to put DD first.

Okiedokieme - Thsnks for your reply. We have now ordered a playpen and it should be arriving any day now.

My kids dad is like this. He won’t listen to advice at all especially if it comes from a woman. He has traveled with our then 2 year old daughter without a car seat. Everything in the way we brought up our children had to be his way. I wasn’t allowed to breast feed my son as he took him away and often wouldn’t let me hold him for hours at a time ( I was allowed to feed my daughter but I think it was because he was working all the time and isn’t bothered by her because she’s a girl). I made excuse after excuse for him. It’s his culture, he is depressed, he doesn’t understand etc. Fuck that, he and your partner are bully boys who only care for their own needs.

My ex was like this, if it wasn't one thing it was another always having to prove his was the right way and I knew nothing. However when it came to ds I absolutely would not back down which led to major sulking, name calling and all sorts of nastiness. I soon got fed up of that, not a good role model for his child.
Funnily enough now he's an ex and has been for some time he actually asks my opinion and listens to me.
There were no cultural issues at play just a very controlling man.
Get rid or stand up for your child, or preferably both.

User - thanks for your reply. I'm really sorry to hear that you and your DCs went through such behaviour with your ex. It's hard because DH does have some good qualities and I know this makes it easier to accept the bad stuff. He has been v v supportive and encouraging with EBF. He does all the cooking and helps out around the house. Having said that, he still believes that ideally, the woman does these things, but says I can't cook. Food is a massive area of control for him and resulted in lots of arguments in the past. He still displays controlling behaviour with it - e.g. bullied me into eating something with dairy in a few days ago when I eat vegan. This was after asking me to taste it, when he knew there was dairy in it. He says that in his culture, 'trying' is not the same as eating and I was being 'tough'. I backed down because I don't want arguments around DD. Later, I ate some more of it (by choice), as I'd already tried some. I'm sure DH saw this is some kind of victory and proof that I'm not really committed to being a vegan.

How/why on earth have you even still got the moses basket get rid of the thing they're only meant to be used whilst they're new borns anyway! Why dont you show him the age limit on it if he thinks you're just being dramatic or OTT?
I second the play pen. Since my DD2 who is 8 months started crawling I bought one for the living room and it's been a God send. Totally recommend! I ordered mine from argos for £29 so budget friendly too. It's a travel cot but I dont think theres actually much difference tbh.

What I mean is, that DH tricked me into eating something he'd made with dairy in, when he knows I don't eat it. He said it's pointless for me to be annoyed, because I ate dairy towards the end of my pregnancy. I'd been 100% vegan since DD was born though.

A practical solution - Get rid of the Moses basket and get rid of the bouncy chair - I don’t know why you still have either as surely your DC is outgrowing them both.
Another practical solution would be to get rid of the dim and disrespectful DH as well - it’s hardly rocket science that Moses baskets aren’t for babies to sit in and bouncy chairs don’t belong on the sofa - it’s not a ‘cultural’ thing. You’re husband is either thick as shit or determined to do the opposite of what you want for the sake of it. Or both. My guess if both.

He sounds insufferable OP.

My husband did some careless things when our first was little, but the difference was, I hit the roof and he apologised and tried his best to learn and not let it happen again.

His family are very blase about safety and it's what he was used to growing up. He also had zero experience with babies/toddlers.

However he never tried to fight me or dismiss my concerns.

I'm not sure what to suggest in your situation. I mean if you leave him, he will end up having your daughter unsupervised so I don't think that is the answer, in the short term at least.

EastMidsMum - we kept the Moses basket around to use like a toy box. (It's not unusual to do this, I think). I've now put it in the bottom of the wardrobe and the stand in the garage. The toys are now in a normal handbasket.

Pinkblueberry - we kept the bouncer and Moses in case we have another child (no chance of that unless things change radically around here). There's therefore no way DH would get rid of them and he hates getting rid of things anyway.