Please help me. Angry angry 4yr old. Broken mother.

[LemonadePockets]

The title sounds dramatic but I’m just broken. I don’t know what to do or how to help this.

I have one child. She’s 4yr old, her birthday was February.

She’s bright, she’s clever, she’s always been a character. Academically she’s above average for her age in areas. She was due to start school in August but I have deferred her due to her emotional immaturity.

She’s always struggled with self regulation, she’s a reactor. Her anger levels are now off the scale and I’m dealing with full on meltdowns every days more than once.
She’s screaming and crying and so cheeky and rude. She kicks and throws things about and tells me she hates me.

I can’t handle it anymore. My husband isn’t very supportive, he lets her away with quite a lot at times or tells me I’m too hard on her but I honestly just haven’t got a clue how to help her. I don’t know what to do, I don’t know where to start.

It can’t be healthy to be this angry at the age of 4.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated because I have never been this low in all my parenting life.

I just want to run away

Another Scottish poster here I think deferring your DD is the right thing to do, especially as its been agreed with no problems. She'd be the youngest in her year! And P1 is hard, the pupils are exhausted at the end of the day.
My nephew was deferred (Jan birthday) and it was amazing for him.

The deferral will be relevant for the rest of school and will make so much more sense at P7/S1 during exams and learning to drive.

WRT the deferral I'd take advice from the nursery first and investigate other avenues for dealing with all those powerful emotions.

If you can get her into the nursery class that is in the same school as her P1 then please consider that. Is she going to her catchment school or are you making a placing request?

For us it’s to earn screen time as that’s something he really likes to do (like most children!!). So say you start the day with a blank area. Then for every wonderful thing they do (overpraise wildly) they can earn 10 mins on it. So if they get dressed beautifully etc. If they start kicking off it’s an oh dear, looks Luke mummy will have to take that 10 mins back you earned this morning - super sad face.

Honestly it’s a bloody charm. I do the same with my seven year old. He earns screen time by completing the work he needs to do for home schooling. If he doesn’t do it then he knows he won’t get a chance to play the game he likes.

OP I feel for you, we had big issues with our DD about a year ago (when she was almost 6). She’s always been a challenge, fiercely independent from the get go! I’m autistic and she shows some traits.
Someone recommended The Explosive Child by Ross Greene, I strongly recommend it. It’ll give you insight into her behaviour and strategies for how to manage it. Also worth looking at 1,2,3..magic for an immediate strategy. The good thing about that is you’re probably not so time pressured at the moment? You need to tools to take control of a situation, these will help.

Oh and he is also very smart. I have no idea if that’s just a coincidence but it sort of makes sense that he understands things differently, perhaps gets frustrated due to age limitations. I’m not sure.

Agree with everything suggested and make sure she is getting enough sleep. I remember my 4 year old refusing to walk home from nursery (a 10 min journey took nearly an hour and knocked much lying on the pavement screaming). Turns out he was so exhausted he fell asleep on the doormat. An extreme example but recognising the signs of tiredness as him being exceptionally angry and irrational helped.

See if you find the raising children with confidence course. (I did the teenager one by accident - I thought it was how to ensure my teenage had confidence but it was for me to have parenting confidence! - I learned so much though)

You get taken through lots of stuff about brain development and why children act as they do. It's really fascinating and helpful.

This is the Edinburgh info for example

www.joininedinburgh.org/parenting-programmes/raising-children-confidence/

She sounds incredibly bright.

This sounds like my daughter. I found that the book “the highly sensitive child” helped me understand her better. In fact I found out about the book, and concept of highly sensitive children, from mumsmet when googling “what is wrong with my four year old”.
She is six now and is much better generally although still has outbursts and meltdowns - she also really thrived at school (it turned out a academic, structured environment suited her) but she is quite highly strung and regressing a lot during lockdown to the “bad old” three / four year old era..
The book helped me understand that it was her temperament and that normal discipline would work with her - so nothing innately wrong with either her or our parenting. My youngest daughter is nothing like this but it upset me for a long time and made me doubt myself as a parent (and still does -it’s not always possible to react in the “right” way!!)

I’m in Scotland with a child in p2 so school start not that long ago and I’m not against deferment but if your child is already doing phonics work like teach your monster to read waiting till August 2021 to start p1 seems wrong to me. She’ll be so far ahead of the other children it’s likely she’ll be bored and frustrated. I’d start her this August but speak to the school about her emotional regulation (which might be totally ok by then anyway). My ds was a fidget who couldn’t sit still in p1 but school were great with him. He did “sensory circuits” and learned meditation
On that topic have you tried cosmic kids yoga with her? Specifically the “zen den” which talks about feelings a lot.

Omg, I REMEMBER. Haven’t read all replies, but wanted to lend support, my daughter was a nightmare at this age. I remember sobbing my heart out and my mum saying, what can I do, what can I do? I said, you can just take her. Away from me.
I did a parenting course, on the strong willed child. The speaker made her introduction... congratulations! You have a strong willed child... who will grow into a strong willed adult which is amazing. But at the moment, you will be challenged... haha. I sobbed my way through the seminar, and left knowing I wasn’t alone and equipped with some coping skills. (around this time starting taking a lot better care of myself so I had more patience, more empathy etc)...
Well, that child is now the most gorgeous 16 year old, she is so laid back, kind, clever, relaxed, motivated, amazing.
You’ve got this. Just breathe :)

Sorry I meant to say in my comment that normal discipline wouldn’t work.

Your dd has learnt a lot already for her age imo. I’m not a teacher. I am also not in Scotland. The question, which springs to my mind is why teach your dd loads to then not send her to school to use what she has learnt?

I really think you need more advice. For me, outsider looking in, deferring your dd puts her potentially on the path to home education. Schools cater for the majority of children, most of whom are middle of the road in learning. Your dd will already be far further ahead than a lot of children even if she starts this year let alone in 2021.

Have you considered seeing a child psychologist? Someone upthread also said they saw a chiropractor for their ds. I would be looking at more options before you definitively rule out changing your mind on the deferral.

Sorry reward chart didn’t seem to work. Have you tried it with giving her points to earn a sparkly top, pretty dress etc? Rewards have to be very enticing to give her a better pay off than her poor and at times violent behaviour, which right now is giving her very big pay offs. I also agree with love bombing.

And have you tried confiscating items? Choose her most prized possession. But never anything, which is a comfort item / sleepy toy etc. It gets confiscated for 24 hours. Give her a warning if she is verbally naughty. A larger infraction, such as hitting is an automatic confiscation. Anything major, I would consider taking for 2 days.

@lovelyconverse123 I just seen your post, I had never given a chiropractor a thought.

@stargirl1701 I will be putting a placing request in. There’s 2 schools I’m thinking of sending her 2, one where we live and the other in the East of the city. The one where we live has a nursery attached.

@museumum we have been doing some of the zen den videos, we were watching before bed but I think we need to watch during the day when she can concentrate more. She sleeps between 10 & 13hrs. Just depends..

She’s a fidget too, struggles to sit on her bum through dinner. But will sit to draw or write or do something that interests her..

She’s always been keen to learn. I sound like one of ‘them’ mothers but it’s just to give you an insight to her. At 19months she could recognise numbers 1-20 and her favourite game was spreading flash cards out and grabbing the number she was told. She knew her colours and shapes early too.. She toilet trained herself. She has no patience, one day she just decided to use the toilet and that was it. She didn’t want the faff of a potty.. nighttime dryness took a whole year from that point because she simply didn’t wake up to go to the bathroom.

She started showing a big interest in letters at just over 2 and would copy letters she seen even though she had no idea what they were so eventually we started a phonics class, she adores it. It’s really interesting and there’s lots of play, we get to do it all together and the teacher who runs it is wonderful. From the phonics class she’s went onto the apps of Teach Your Monster and then we got Reading Eggs and Math Seeds and she really enjoys them both.

I’m being led by her, I’ve never decided this is what I want her to do. When she shows an interest in something I just go with it. That’s also why we have roller skates and ice skates sitting in boxes barely used!

She gets totally frustrated with anything physical that requires practice, she has no patience to not be able to do something straight away..

@Mummyoflittledragon I do confiscate stuff but not often. And as I said, I haven’t taught her all this stuff because I’m desperate for her to know it, I’m just led by her.

In our dining room we have a wall with all the flash cards from her phonics class and she likes to be the teacher sometimes.

I’ll give the love bombing a try.

She’s still so little, I know that. But she argues like a teenager it’s easy to forget she’s only 4.

Thank you again everyone! I’ve
Read every message and noted all your suggestions on the courses and books & groups.

I’ll keep you all updated on how we get on

Have you heard of "the tantrum game"?

Each morning, we tell dd we were going to pretend she can't have the next thing she asks for, she is to act really angry but must not hurt or be horrible to anyone. We all take it in turns being told "no" , shouting, slamming our fists down and screaming. Each time we congratulate each other for getting angry without hurting or being horrible to anyone, with a big round of applause thrown in.

We've done it for a week now and Dd only got angry once on day one (compared to 6+ times each day before), she shouted and stamped her foot - I immediately smiled, said "well done, you got angry without hurting or being horrible to anyone, high 5". She smiled, did a high 5 and cuddled me. Then I was able to distract her from the original upset.

We've been playing it for a week now and it seems to be working well. Today when she shouted about not getting her way, we cheered and clapped and congratulated her, she rolled her eyes and laughed. She's just 3.

I wasn’t suggesting you were trying to hot house your dd. I understand this is led by her thirst to learn. I’m not the only one on this thread to think that she knows a lot more than her peers and that by deferring her she will be so far in advance, she will be incredibly bored at school.

I know what it’s like to be bored at school. In fact I was so bored and didn’t know how to interact with children of my age. I’d been taught so much that my boredom led to despair and an inability to learn. So much so that I underachieved at school, which started a life long pattern of underachievement and low self esteem.

I know your dd isn’t me. All I’m saying is that you could just be fixing a problem your dd may or may not have if she goes to school this year and creating a larger one. Hence my home schooling comment. And why I think you should be looking to some kind of external help if funds permit.

@mummyofalittledragon

Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound defensive. I was just explaining what she’s like. My granny once told me I was going to ‘make her brain physically explode’ by ‘forcing learning on her’

She couldn’t get that it was just what my kid enjoyed!

I understand what you’re saying, I loved school but my high school was plagued with troubled kids and those who wanted to learn had to wait until the other kids had been dealt with. The constant disruption was horrid and it eventually got me in the way of not caring about classes as much because my teachers were too busy telling off bad kids that teaching ones who wanted to be there.

I do worry that she’ll be bored at school, one of my teacher friends said a good teacher know what to do with every child to get the best for and from them but there’s no guarantee she’ll get a good teacher.

My brains mashed with it all. I just need her to relax a bit and then deal with the rest as it comes...

If I get through tomorrow without her telling me she hates me or throwing something I’ll consider it a good day!

Did you think a chiropractor would also be a good idea? And can I see a child psychologist privately? Or would I need to go through my health visitor?

I really appreciate all your comments and advice x

I agree with the PPs who said to keep your deferral. I'm in Scotland, I didn't defer my DC because they were miserable at nursery and very capable of the work.
But, now I wish I had deferred and changed nursery instead or found a nanny.
They're also an only, very articulate from a young age. Reward charts only worked with the promise of a reward not with a threat of losing something.
Your DD reminds me a lot of my DC. I'd look for a children's mindfulness or yoga class. My DC is prone to worrying and anxiety. It's why the threat of losing something doesn't work. They find it so overwhelming that they just give up whatever it is immediately instead.

Oh gosh no, I didnt mean my response to be construed as snippy.

I have never taken my dd to a chiropractor or cranio sacral osteopath. She would refuse to be touched and scream the place down. Strong willed child, like yours....

As for the child psychologist. It was my friend, who suggested it to me when dd was 5 1/2 as I was having some pretty big issues with dd. But I was so ill I couldn’t see it myself. The woman was amazing. Dd said she hated her and tried very hard not to participate in the work. She also suggested the child psychologist, who was a friend of hers.

You don’t have to get a referral. Just have a google, read their profiles and contact a couple you like the look of. It was around £25 an hour 6 years ago and the sessions lasted about 4 months. We saw her for 2 hours at a time, maybe weekly for a couple and then fortnightly after that. I forget.

If you do decide to go for this option, the issue you have now is lockdown. But they’ll hopefully be working with existing clients online. Perhaps if any have availability you can start some work with your dd and then meet face to face later.

@KellyHall your post made me

I'd definitely second @stargirl1701, I have bright children with spring/early summer cut-offs so we've never had to make the choice about school years but all three of them will be between 5 1/4 and 5 1/2 when they start school. The youngest isn't there yet but the older two split their ante and pre school years between school nursery and private nursery, doing a few days at both.

They had fun at both but as they got older both DC have preferred the school nursery. It's more structured, which guess suits the shorter days more; I wouldn't want the long private nursery days to be as formal. They are also great for school prep- the children eat their lunch in the dining hall, they use the gym and library facilities in the school, hear the bell going, join in the nativity, get to know the P1 teachers who pop in to see them and play in a fenced off area next to the school playground so it's all really familiar. Plus they move into school with their cohort- they've known around 20 children in the P1 class when they've started.

As they approached school age both have said they'd rather drop the private nursery and just go to the school one, though for childcare reasons we've needed to keep a few longer days too!!

The thing that's really interested me, but I hadn't foreseen, had been the social side of it- we only seem to get birthday invites from others who were 5 when they started school so there's a clear line socially between older and younger.

In our school, P1 very much had an expectation of sitting down and working from day 1, including daily homework. There was lots of time to play during the school day too, but it was a far cry from what I hear about reception, where children often seem to be allowed a lot of free movement and free play, with staff following them about with clipboards and tick off play based objectives. That's more like a preschool year at nursery with some added phonics up here.

I know a young feb birthday child in the year above mine who seems to have more friends in the school year below than in her own year, and other who was taken out of school for homeschooling for a period because he wasn't coping socially. There are obviously plenty who thrive as well,, however. It is just completely different from the English system because parents have that choice for the Jan/Feb birthdays up here. Deferring would be a massive thing down there but is normal here.

Having said that I'm glad I'm not going to have the responsibility of making that choice!! Had nursery advised you one way or the other? The school nursery certainly do here, but I don't know about the private ones.