Please help me. Angry angry 4yr old. Broken mother.

[LemonadePockets]

The title sounds dramatic but I’m just broken. I don’t know what to do or how to help this.

I have one child. She’s 4yr old, her birthday was February.

She’s bright, she’s clever, she’s always been a character. Academically she’s above average for her age in areas. She was due to start school in August but I have deferred her due to her emotional immaturity.

She’s always struggled with self regulation, she’s a reactor. Her anger levels are now off the scale and I’m dealing with full on meltdowns every days more than once.
She’s screaming and crying and so cheeky and rude. She kicks and throws things about and tells me she hates me.

I can’t handle it anymore. My husband isn’t very supportive, he lets her away with quite a lot at times or tells me I’m too hard on her but I honestly just haven’t got a clue how to help her. I don’t know what to do, I don’t know where to start.

It can’t be healthy to be this angry at the age of 4.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated because I have never been this low in all my parenting life.

I just want to run away

@Herpesfreesince03 I deferred her because I thought sending her to school in a class with 29 other kids all about a year older than her would do her more harm than good. She’s not at home, she’s in a private nursery 4 days a Week. She’s been in there since 15m old due to my job.

@AnneOfTeenFables thank you. Sometimes I do worry her behaviour is because of something I’m doing wrong.

Most of the time I manage fine and I’m never one to ask for help or advice, I’ll look for answers online but tonight I just needed to speak to parents who had a clue, because I feel like I haven’t got one.

Tomorrow’s a new day! Wish me luck!

My Dd is 5.5 now, we found 4 a very VERY tough age. Her preschool were amazing for that year and she's been so much better since starting school. So maybe have a think about how to give her a solid structure, if you're set on deferring. I'd also recommend reading 123 magic, and how to talk so little kids will listen. I found both really helpful. Good luck!

Yes I just wrote some phrases and we sorted them together- stuck polite ones under a picture of a sunshine and rude ones under a picture of a rain cloud. We talked about which ones we’d like to hear in our family. She also really likes Disney princesses so we've talked about the characters in those e.g what is unkind about the baddie- bossy, shouty etc. Similar to your DD, she fully understands what is nice behaviour, just has a hard time applying it to herself but we hope that keep talking through things helps.

We have also talked through how it is fine to be/feel angry (everyone does sometimes) and what that might look and feel like but it is NOT ok to scream, hit or damage belongings. It’s not been super successful yet but we’ve talked about how to calm down when this happens- use phrases like “the problem is...and I feel...”, read a book, run outside, squeeze a stress ball.

It feels like such an effort and I have to stop myself from feeling like it shouldn’t be this hard and just accept it as our current normal. But I’m desperately hoping it passes soon because it takes a lot of joy out of the day 🙁

@Indecisivelurcher thank you! Will certainly have a read at both.

I keep thinking god help me when 13 comes round if this is 4.

I think a lot of posters in here telling you send her to school this year aren't Scottish! Nursery up here is full of 5 year olds and the whole system is geared up for children being older when they start school. P1 is also much more intense than reception.

I absolutely wouldn't send a 4 year old with a birthday at the end of February- so many children defer up here that she'd be 14+ months younger than the oldest in her year, and by the time they get to secondary school that's a huge difference.

Deferring is a really sensible option for many children, especially if she's emotionally immature.

It is a really hard age, full of boundary pushing and wanting more independence. Be kind to yourself- I bet you're doing much better with her than you realise.

Agree with getting her into school. You may find it's not as difficult because I would expect some parents will be homeschooling their kids now because of worries about coronavirus, so there will be more room in classes than expected.

I also think you may well be worrying excessively about some of these things. My (v gentle) DC had an isolated biting incident in nursery. Most children who knew did. It's not a marker that a child will be out of control in future. Similarly some four year olds are very precociously cheeky and backchatty. It's fair enough to look at what you might be contributing, but you seem preoccupied with these things being your fault somehow. Maybe they're just things that happen with quite a few four year olds, and that will pass.

Keep her deferral. You get an automatic deferral for a Feb birth for a reason. I've been a primary school teacher in Scotland for 20 years. I've never met a parent who regretted deferring. I have met plenty of parents who were advised to defer, chose not to and then regretted it. The P7/S1 transition is usually the point at which parents regret not deferring.

Your local council will run a parenting support course. Ask for a referral from your Health Visitor. It might be Incredible Years or Triple P. It's a good place to start. Make sure you are on the evening course.

Read The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. There is a Facebook support group for parents based on the book.

Does she have any sensory difficulties? Food textures/flavours, clothes, weather, hair brushing, tooth brushing, etc?

Does she struggle with transitions? Leaving the house, stopping play at your insistence, falling asleep, etc?

Oh and @lemonade just repeat to yourself that everything's a phase... 😅

Hi I couldnt read your post & not reply. Rushing now but u can pm me if u want. Just want to say I was you a few years ago with my son (now nearly 8). How we got thru those years I dont know. He was exactly the same. We are a normal stable family, no distress etc.
I had a perfect pregnancy & delivery & as a baby he was fine. One he developed his personality that's when it came started to come through.
Coukdnt handle family gatherings, bday parties etc, too happy to play alone etc. The the out bursts started which I had thought were just tantrums. Never 'grew out' if them tho. Lashing out physically with older brother, myself & Dh, meltdowns screaming, trashing his room etc. It was a living nightmare. Long story short I was desperate. Had him on fidh oils , sugar free diet , gluten free, reasoning with him, reward charts, coming down heavy etc 2 referrals to paediatric specialist for autism assessment (big history of it in my husbands famuky). Nothing worked & I felt I had exhausted everything. Felt he had no personality except intense anger & negativity. Got no happiness from anything. Felt that I didnt know him.
About a year ago in desperation I made an appointment with chiropractor/orsteopath. I was feeling 'here we go again' but at least it was another thing we had explored to help him.
Started off with 2 apptmntss a week , got exercises to do at home (which we did To the letter), chiropractor cracked him into place a good few times.
All I can say is the difference is UNREAL. DIFFERENT CHILD. Basically he was out of sync since birth & this was the cause of the problems. Apparently he is 'right brain dominant ' which totally fits him & he has to be rewired (layman's speak).
I cannot get over the change. Wish I had thought to fo this years ago . At several stages I felt my son was going to break our family & I was on the brink. This chiripracotor saved us all. Before corona we went for a few 'maintenance' apptmntss & once this is all over we'll go again. Im mindful that I may need to 'watch' him more than his brothers as he gets older but that's a small price to pay . Sorry for long post but just wanted to let u know that there can be hope for your daughter !

If your dd has the back chat of a teenager, she could just be massively frustrated and bored. Therefore keeping her back could be very counterproductive. Its hard to know. Have you tried to teach her to read for example? What is her understanding of maths concepts like?

@stargirl1701

Thank you. I was just reading the difference in ages for school in England and Scotland. I knew it was different but I just assumed reception was similar to p1.

No sensory issues, did have a problem last summer where she was very hot headed and went through a stage of wearing ear defenders but it turned out to be an inner ear infection causing her to be sensitive to noises and sounds.

She sleeps fine although wakes up through the night often now, as a baby she never did this.

Hates being told what to do, when to stop playing to come and eat etc.. she was very adaptable when she was younger but not so much now. Nursery she went into with no problems at all, I have issues now dropping her off where she gets upset and angry because she doesn’t want to stay at times.

Hates getting he hair brushed but has long hair.. has recently changed from loving a bath to only wanting a shower. Hates wearing clothes at times, but loves being dressed in pretty dresses! Doesn’t get worked up when I dress her but leave her for 5min and she comes out starkers. Hates wearing shoes, has been like this her whole life.. takes them off as soon as she gets in the car or in the house. Other times she just takes them off in the street! Even as a baby she use to chuck her shoes at me!

Her best friend has a birthday 4wks after hers & there’s another child in nursery who’s birthday is the same day but is a year older. The way the cut off works my DD would go to school with the child who is a her older and not her friend who is 4wks younger.

@Indecisivelurcher thank you! I remember back in the baby stage a mum said to me ‘everything is phase. If it’s a good phase we enjoy it, if it’s a bad one we endure it’

Reward charts work can really well. Try and have a few your dd can do easily and a couple a bit more challenging. Eg be kind to mummy (hard), using my words (hard) and putting my pants in the laundry basket (easy). Give her 2 chances to forget / warnings and on the 3rd she doesn’t get the sticker for the day.

What type of nursery is she in just now? Private or school?

Which local authority are you in?

Her emotional ability to cope with Primary 1 is far more important than her cognitive ability to cope with academic work. Her social skills development is more crucial at this point than cognitive development.

@Mummyoflittledragon we’ve been doing a fair bit of work on reading and maths. She’s working her way through the Fry’s 100 words list, loves Reading Eggs and Teach Your Monster to read. She knows most of her phonics and can sound out CVC words,

Maths wise she does Ok. Can recognise numbers up to 100 to tell you the name of them. Working on Mathseeds doing adding and subtracting up to 20, some pattern and fraction stuff. We’ve done some telling the time. Moving the clock to hour and half past.

When we do this work together sometimes she’ll say she’s had enough and I encourage her to finish what we’ve started. Other times when she says she’s done we stop. That’s on the advice of the teacher from her phonics class.

She loves to draw so we draw and colour..

She’s an only child so it’s very much me and her just now.

My son was so, so similar. School was a turning point. I wished he could have started sooner! Also it sounds like you might think school is going to be more 'serious' than it really is. It's just an extension of nursery in the first year... it's all play based learning. If you leave it too late she might find it too easy and boring by the time she gets there as she's a bright one. Also don't forget there will be plenty of other kids there who will show tricky behaviour.... probably the ones who are angels at home! Don't think they will all be sitting nicely all day etc.

There is a good sensory checklist on the NHS Tayside OT page.

https://www.nhstayside.scot.nhs.uk/OurServicesA-Z/SensoryTraining/index.htm

It's worth printing off and completing in order to rule out sensory processing difficulties.

@stargirl1701 We are in Glasgow and she’s in private.

I decided last year I would defer her because teachers can teach a child to read and write whatever their age, but they can’t teach emotional maturity or social skills.

I do educational stuff with her because she’s always enjoyed learning, likes the challenge but recently she’s started telling me she doesn’t know anything. I’ve always been child led.. recently though my child’s behaviour is leading me head first into the Clyde !

You are getting a lot of advice from people who don't understand the difference between P1 and reception in England. P1 can vary from school to school as to how much play based learning there is - I would urge you to seek further advice from teachers and nursery staff before committing to sending her this year.

Like the teacher who posted earlier, I have never met anyone who regretted deferring their child in Scotland, but a few who regretted not deferring. She is dealing with a massive change in her routine right now and that is really hard for some children.

Obvious question. Have you tried a reward chart? I have a violent four year old that I’ve somewhat managed to tame with a reward chart that has to earn him time on the iPad.

I tried the same punishments/consequences that worked on his brother when he was younger but they only antagonised him. Time Out basically caused him to trash the room he was put it and made his rage 10x worse. Last year I lost my rag and put him in the garden for time out. HUGE mistake. He screamed the neighbourhood down and my neighbours screamed at me assuming I was bring abusive to him and that’s now caused a rift. I honestly felt suicidal over it and only managed to forgive myself after realising losing me to suicide would damage them more than me finding a way to handle his behaviour better.

I had signed myself up to some parenting courses which of course didn’t happen because the pandemic arrived. What did work though was some wonderful advice from a social worker friend who has similar problems with her son.

So instead of taking things away as punishment he has to earn things with good behaviour. I’m not saying he is perfect. He has a punch that knocks his seven year old brother off his chair, it’s crazy. But directly he starts then we immediately go to reward chart and he stops what he’s doing. We also absolutely don’t try and outdo his anger as that’s like adding water to an chip pan fire. So we become icy calm to his anger. He hasn’t trashed a room in a while.

I’ve also learned that his behaviour is much worse as the day progresses and if he starts dreaming out around bedtime he is tired. So don’t react as directly he conks out I feel such immense guilt.

Have you applied for a school nursery place for Aug? I would advise you to consider that. She would have access to the school resources in a fully play based environment that way.

Sensory info for NHS Glasgow:

https://www.nhsggc.org.uk/kids/life-skills/joining-in-with-sensory-differences/

It's Triple P parenting courses in Glasgow. Make sure you get an EVENING course though. Looks like you can self refer.

https://www.yoursupportglasgow.org/directory/providerdetails/56100

@thereplycamefromanchorage I understand that, I didn’t realise at the beginning the difference myself. She won’t be going to school this year. Tonight I’m all over the place looking for the solution to my problems but I know myself now that school isn’t for her. Even with the free flow learning in place I just think that I give so much thought to deferring her, I can’t undo that after one bad day.

@Mummyoflittledragon - the reward chart went down like a lead balloon. When she was warned about losing a star or not getting one she would tell me ‘it’s fine I don’t want one today anyway’

I had similar difficulties with DD1, OP. The parenting course (Incredible Years) was ok but what I really got out of it was a group of other parents who were open and honest about their parenting struggles. I'm still in touch with some of them 3 years later.

@stargirl1701 no, I was leaving her where she is until it was time to go to school. I didn’t want to uproot her. Do you think a school nursery would be better?

Will definitely look in the triple P classes for an evening. Thank you so much for your help and advice. I really appreciate it.

@justanotherneighinparadise I did try the reward chart to earn things but it was more get a new book or LOL doll.

I’ll make something up tonight for her to earn screen time or a movie night.. a special treat for dessert etc..?

Can only try these things.

Need to work on myself too, my lack of confidence and me getting upset and stressed at her behaviour doesn’t help.

Just feel so often like I’m failing her.