At absolute breaking point

[Wingingit2019]

Its 4:30am I have been awake more than I have been asleep and this has been the same for almost 2 months.

DS is 5mo and BF to sleep. Will not sleep in cot in the day without hours of crying. Is awake every 1 or of I'm lucky 2 hours at night. DP is a key worker so is not at home with me and the isolation and sleep deprivation is waring me down to tears most days. Do I sleep train? Where do I start? I obviously dont mind feeding at night but this is beyond it. He will not tolerate being rocked/cuddled/shhpatted/stroked to sleep he just screams until I give in and BF.

I am desperate.

Google the Blissful Baby Expert. She's brilliant and her routines work.

Reflux?
Has he been examined by a doctor?
I know it is difficult in the current crisis, but he is a baby and there must be some GP availability.

Have you tried a dummy?

Do you Co sleep ??

If not - try it.

Sounds like it could be silent reflux?

Try co-sleeping if you are not on any medication and do not smoke.

There is lots of brain development at your child's age, therefore frequent waking is the norm. If feeding soothes him, go down the path of least resistance and do it, co sleeping will def help. Trying to implement a routine at this age, will be incredibly hard work and stressful for you both.

Ouch that’s awful. I’m amazed you’ve managed so far.
We Piggybacked a friends sleep consultant advice and it made a lot of difference very quickly. Ask for local recommendations.

When you are run down your supply can get low so they feed constantly and you never ‘fill up’ and neither do they. we added bottles, especially at night. Solids was also a turning point.

Also co slept. Also used dummies. Also did sleep training (start in the day not at night)

Thanks for all the advice!

He did have what we thought was reflux early on and we were prescribed gaviscon. We stopped a few months back after we didnt give it one night and he still slept well. Feels like a distant memory now. It hadnt occured he might have silent reflux. I might give gaviscon another try!

He won't take a dummy unfortunately, I have tried!

We have tried co-sleeping a few times however both me and DS are light sleepers so we woke eachother a lot.

I dont have a nap routine I just follow his cues as he wakes up at different times each morning (e.g sometimes 5am, sometimes 7pm) so set nap times wouldn't work. We do have a good, fairly reliable bed time routine.

@ChakaDakotaRegina out of curiosity do you mind me asking what sleep training method you used?

Agree it could be reflux. Or he is just not getting enough food in the day. I actually started solids at this age with DD1. She was very fast growing (and 12 years later still is) and she was ready for some solids at this age. I found that helped a bit. Not too much though.

Routines really do work. Life is not all about babies. You also figure in the equation.

I was in a similar position not long ago myself. Little one would not nap in the day in the cot without a long period of crying which was distressing for us both. I would rock, cuddle, feed, walk in the pram or go for a drive in an attempt to comfort him. He would be so tired but just unable to settle. Bedtime would be a similar story, rock or walking with a very unhappy baby until he fell asleep then cautiously transfer him to his cot and hope he would not wake. Often he would and we would start the process again.

Once he was successfully put to bed he would wake every hour throughout the night. Inconsolable. Sometimes breast would comfort him for a moment but he didn't seem to be taking much at all. I was on my knees. My partner would help, but weeks of being woken every hour for anything from 10 minutes to a couple of hours takes a huge toll on your mental health. I had never felt so down and really struggled in my day to day life.

We saw a gp who diagnosed reflux and so started with gaviscon. We also implemented a bedtime routine, bath, story while being fed and then bed.
The gaviscon made a slight difference I think but baby was still unhappy at bedtime.

As an absolute last resort we attempted controlled crying. I felt awful about this decision but little one was so distressed before bed while being held I thought worst case we try for a day or two and then stop. We discussed what we felt comfortable with and set time limits, I didn't want to leave it longer than five minutes to pop in and we agreed to stop if after 45 mins baby didn't settle.
We had a few days of getting baby used to our routine, and then maybe four days in we put baby to bed after the last feed, awake. Said goodnight. Gave a kiss and left the room. He wasn't happy. My partner returned after two minutes and said goodnight gave a kiss, hand on chest for a moment and then left. I went in after another three minutes and then left. By the time I walked to my room to sit with my husband to watch the monitor and count down to the next visit, baby fell asleep. I spent most of the night staring intently at the monitor waiting for baby to wake any moment. Next thing I know it was 6am and baby was awake. We steeled ourself for the second night beging worse as everything I have read has suggested this.
We followed the same routine, baby in cot awake. Partner popped in after two minutes of grizzling. Baby fell asleep. Again right through until 6am.

Third night we did not need to pop back in at all. Now we continue the same routine. Baby popped in cot awake and asleep often by the time we walk downstairs. Every parent is different and I appreciate this is not for everyone. I was very conflicted about trying this.
I guess somehow we were stopping baby from settling himself to sleep. I'm not suggesting you try this, just sharing my experience. I can fully understand how it feels living with the lack of sleep!

Babies have an undeveloped stomach muscle which means they get the acid burn which is why they cry

Prop up the mattress with a folded towel under the head so head is higher than stomach

Bet he sleeps better in a car seat?
Tilt the pram slightly don’t lie flat for nappy changes - use a cushion

You please see a huge difference in 2 days

Oh and the muscle starts to close around 6 months when they learn to sit

DS had silent reflux though at the time we didn’t know but for him what saved us was switching to bottle feeding (can’t tell you how much I didn’t want to) with him sitting in his car seat. Slightly sitting up meant he was instantly more comfortable. He spent far too long in his car seat or baby swing on current rulings but luckily rules were different back then and it’s had no effect whatsoever since. He hated being moved after feeding so all the comforting things you’d normally do just made him more uncomfortable.

We put books under the top two legs of his cot to raise it a bit (like you do if they have a cold) and sleep trained by going in and just stroking him then leaving a few times always in the dark and never picking up then eventually leaving him to cry but he was 8 months old and been on a bottle for 3 months by the time we sleep trained. We knew he’d had sufficient milk and solids so we’re happy to do it and it only took a couple of nights.

I do think though that routine is important for babies and would put him down for a nap at same time regardless of waking time.

And yes all mine napped in their car seats for a couple of hours a day because it was ok back then and that’s where they were happiest.

Thanks again guys! I have given a dose of gaviscon with his feed this morning so will wait and see if that has an effect. I will also try changes to cot/pram to see if that helps.

@PorkyPickle I'm not going to lie, controlled crying has crossed my mind more than once in my sleep deprived state. Like you my little one is so tired that I want him to be able to settle himself so he gets better quality sleep. At what age did you sleep train? My only issue with controlled crying is what to do with night wakings. Do you continue to follow the same routine popping in and out or feed? I would never know when he was actually hungry as I have always just fed to sleep (easiest when totally shattered). I was hoping to ride it out but it seems to be getting worse.

@Inforthelonghaul I would love to implement a good day time routine but what do you do if baby isn't ready to nap? If too awake/upset then nap times again would vary depending on when they eventually fell asleep? Argh baby sleep in such a minefield 😣

I think we also had silent reflux. Interesting about the stomach muscle above as that fits time wise.

At 8months we did 3,5,7, 9 then every 5m (when they properly cry, go in at 3mins and reset them and give a pat then 5mins go in again. If they’re awake by 40m give a big cuddle and then start again). Don’t think we even got to 7mins. I think I rushed in too early when he woke up too as he started to resettle.

The no cry sleep solution suggests closing their mouths just as they fall asleep on the boob so you slowly wean them off.

The sleep consultant locally said at 5months if they’re feeding too erratically they don’t fill up. If they’re putting on weight normally it’s more because you are working super hard. Try to feed every 3-3.5hrs and make sure they feed at least 6min each side. May take a while for them to get used to having more in one go if it’s been going on for a while. Get them to sleep any way except breastfeeding. Should sleep 6-8hrs at night if full. She suggested they have at least 180ml bottle before bed (rising to 260ml by 8 months). She also suggested early solids if they were interested. Awake time only 1hr 45mins so if they’re up and fed at 6am they go back down 7.45am and so on.

I started sleep training my daughter 2 weeks ago at 4.5 months and she now sleeps from 6.30 to 4.30-6.30. I used a book by Tizzie Hall called sleep and it seems to have worked (so far so good!) I'll be honest though the first few days were tough as it meant putting her down in her cot whilst awake....inevitability my DD was vocal, I learnt however they wasn't real cries most of the time. Good luck and stay strong xx

@ChakaDakotaRegina that's a similar approach to what I'm thinking of doing! Very interesting thoughts from the sleep consultant, it certainly makes sense as DS is on and off the boob all day so no idea how much of it he is taking at once but it's never for a long time.

@Inforthelonghaul how did baby adjust to going onto the bottle? I am seriously considering stopping breastfeeding which is devastating for me but I'm desperate now. How did you DC seek comfort during the day etc? My DS won't consider a dummy so it's the one of the main things stopping me from the transition.

@NMCB thanks for the suggestion. I will look at that book.

Interesting about the stomach muscle above as that fits time wise

I happened to see this via an American doctor on TV a few years ago.

My DS had silent reflux and until he was given omeprezole at 3 months he literally wouldn’t settle anywhere, not even his car seat/ pushchair etc. Would only sleep upright on me or DH. Once reflux was sorted we did pick up put down at 4 months and he’s slept well since. He was never left to cry. He hates being fussed/ rocked / held etc and so we didn’t really have any choice but to help him get to sleep on his own as we just made him even more irate!
At 5 months I would put DS down for a nap every 2 hours regardless of what time he woke up in the morning so most days he had 4 naps (he was a cat napper!) sometimes 3. Always did bottle, bath then bed at the same time each night.
The trouble is, every parent is different and every baby is different so you need to do what you feel comfortable with and what’s best for you and your baby. Good luck!

If it helps, we knew DD had reflux, so Dr advice was to keep her upright for half an hour after every single feed. Easy enough in daytime - save making the bed until after mid-morning feed and prop her up between pillows making it a big game for at least 15 minutes. Sit with me having a cup of tea in travel mug before being laid down for nap. By 5 months she was able to sit in high chair which leaned back a lot but not flat, and bouncy chair.

Nights were trickier, but we propped the head of the crib up on a couple of books, so while it was only slight, nighttime feeds tended to be smaller so it was enough to keep the acid coming up her throat from her stomach and causing the discomfort.

It may not solve all the problems, but it might be worth trying to prop up the head end of the cot - not putting DC on a pillow, propping up the whole mattress a small amount so that there is a small slope down towards the feet.

Thank you so much everyone! X

We added bottles but kept breastfeeding to 8months (that sleep regression was an absolute £&@£ hence the sleep training/passive settling). If they take the bottle do both - try whatever works. I think the confusion is a problem more for newborns.

I’d also normally say pay someone. Anyone! An overnight sleep nurse. A local sleep consultant. A babysitter that comes from 6pm-11pm so you get a few solid hours sleep. It takes a village and all that.

I don’t know if these fit under ‘carers’ where you are but keep it in mind for later.