Advice on taking gp/hv to court

[Random92]

I'm new here, so not sure if I'm in the right spot.

Sorry in advance for the long post.

I'm looking for advice in trying to take my son's health visitor and GP to court for malpractice/negligence.

So to start, my partner took my son to the gp to the doctors for his 12 week injections today (which were late as they forgot to update our address after we moved, yes we informed them of the change)

While there, my partner informed them of a mark on his check that looks very much like a spot. We felt the need to mention this as he has a large strawberry birthmark on his head which started of similar to this (just to note, we had previously asked to see a specialist regarding this as we are very concerned as it looks almost ready to pop some days!)

After my partner pointed this out, as they hadn't noticed. They called in the health visitor and the gp who claimed it was a bruise. (What idiot confuses a fatty lump for a bruise and somehow is medically qualified?) As a result they got social services involved, and would not let my partner leave the doctors or the police would be called. (Just to note, preparations were only made to be out of the house for an hour, so no spare clothes, no extra bottles, no extras of anything.)

So roll on to 4 hours later, partner still held at the doctors, the social worker turns up as she has to drive my partner to the hospital for the little one to be examined. Where the specialist took one look at the baby and said it was a medical issue (fatty necrosis I believe?) not a bruise or anything inflicted by outside actions.

Now, this paediatrician noticed this was not a bruise within seconds, surely any half qualified health visitor or gp should've spotted that before treating us as if we were criminals. Now even though we have been cleared as its nothing we could of caused, the social worker still wants to visit our 4yo daughter tomorrow for whatever stupid reason which to be quite honest I think is not necessary as the gp and health visitor were wrong.

As any parent can imagine, the whole situation has been incredibly stressful, especially to my partner who they kept locked up all day and she gets very emotional and loves our little ones more than anything.
I feel we were treated as guilty until proven innocent and this should've of never been necessary if any half competent medical professional had checked the spot on our sons face in the first place. In total they kept our boy out of the house for 8 hours. We were lucky to have family that could collect our daughter from school.

Any advice on how to take this further would be greatly appreciated, as this is a permanent mark on our children's names, even though we did absolutely nothing wrong.

This has shattered any trust we have in our Heath care system, and has made me fearful of taking my own children to the doctors. We pointed out the mark! It would've went unnoticed otherwise!
I consider this a complete failure on the nhs and their procedures.

Signed, an upset father with a devastated partner.

Short version: health visitor called social services due to a medical issue, not an injury that anyone with eyes could see. Permanent mark on children's record.

If Your complaint is about one particular doctor or nurse wouldnt it be more appropriate to complain to their governing bodies. Who is it you want to sue.

I am so sorry to hear that this has happened to you - I can understand your anger. You have been falsely accused of a serious crime and you are bound to be furious.

I think that you need to let the dust settle a bit and allow your understandable anger to cool - and then you will be better able to think logically about this - specifically about what you want to achieve.

I suspect that your main wish is to not have a record with SSD or at the GP practice that initiates a "no smoke without fire" reaction from those who read it, even though it is now clear that the fears were without foundation. I can absolutely understand that is of concern to you.

Maybe you could approach both agencies with a cool head, when you are feeling less angry and simply ask what can be done about this. Be clear about the outcome you wish to achieve and explore how this might be done. They will find this hard as records are very important documents; but I still think you should ask them. Tell them that you understand why they took the actions that they did - that you realise that any suspicion of harm in one so small cannot be ignored. The GP got the diagnosis wrong; but he was right to act on his suspicions - he had no choice. But also be very clear about finding this suspicion on your family's record is not acceptable to you.

If they do not respond helpfully, then you should speak to your MP about this.

I can understand why you might want to take this case to law; but I do not think that there is a case to answer as all [parties acted properly. Unfortunately the misdiagnosis that triggered all this action cannot be changed.

There are ways that the GP could be held to account for the misdiagnosis - but not for the actions that were taken.

Blackcat86, now that our son has had bloody tests etc we will finally go somewhere from here hopefully. I am just disappointed that it had to come to this first.

Quartz2208, all of this is a result of them failing to take appropriate action for the birthmark and was completely avoidable. They clearly pick and choose what protocols they follow.

Mishappening, thank you for understanding in a way that no one else seems to! I have spoke with the social worker and involved parties in an appropriate way. I'm venting here more than I should be but I'm not being angry towards any staff or any individuals. As that would just raise flags.

I don't want any records saying in so many words "this person may of harmed his child - oh wait, we were wrong" I don't care that the verdict went in my our favour. I don't want that against our family when they were wrong! It's still devastating!

I want there to be some sort of repercussions for failing us, I want our slates wiped clean, and I want the people that made the mistakes to be accountable for that. Especially when they made mistakes previous to it.

Again it's not about money. But the system is flawed and needs work so this doesn't happen. Change doesn't happen until the issues are raised. I want to do this by any means necessary. I was proven to be in the right, but not all innocent people are so lucky.
People can't even begin to imagine how we were feeling yesterday.

I'm thinking completely rationally, I'm just looking for the best ways going forward to make an impact.

If I won a claim I'd be glad to give the money to a charity! Purely principle.

So why are you running straight to the legal system rather than following correct procedures for raising complaints?

No the system worked absolutely perfectly.

A mark was seen on an infant’s face. The GP wasn’t 100% sure of the cause.

They flagged this up with SS and made a referral to have it checked by someone that specialises in infants.

It was deemed absolutely fine. No further referrals or investigations needed. Signed off.

The fact that you’re being so overly semantic about this all is a red flag to me.

*dramatic. Autocorrect

But your not thinking rationally otherwise you wouldn’t be thinking of suing and what you would do with any money!

Would you rather the GP had just let it go and it turned out your child was being abused? Yes it’s horrific and a terrifying situation to be in when your thinking of the worst scenarios but sitting with a ‘no win, no fee’ muppet isn’t going to change any of that.

@mustardscreams I absolutely agree with you.

Is your son ill as a result of their actions?

Is the birthmark life threatening or will it impede his life in any way?

If you're answering no to any of these questions, then you have no grounds of negligence.

You keep saying it started out as a spot which spread to a birthmark. But if it started out as a spot, and you showed the GP that spot, why would they give a referral if that's all they can see? Children get spots alot, even in the early days. Yes, its frustrating that you wanted to get a referral but they can only go on what they see.

As for the other parts, they were following policy. If you dont like that policy take that up with PALS or the practice manager.

You are overreacting at the moment (which is sort of understandable, I have been in a similar position) but safeguarding is paramount.
Need I remind you of the Baby P case? Horrific. These safeguarding policies are to prevent something like that ever happening again. So, if you're treated guilty until proven innocent (as I was) to protect the children in their care, it's not a personal issue against you. It is purely for protections and safeguarding purposes.

MustardScreams the system did not work perfectly. It should've been seen by a specialist sooner, which would then of put a note on his medical records stating blemishes can appear as a result of this.

As a result "abuse" shouldn't of been the first thought.

Raising a red flag for you? Our child had a full body medical exam as a result of this and not a single mark was found!
After going through all of this. The fact I'm more than slightly annoyed raises a red flag? This is the kind of thing that can forever go against you yet I'm being "overly dramatic" right.

Put yourselves in our shoes. Then think it's over dramatic!

The more I think about this, I find it really weird that on the same day that all this has happened you have made your priority thinking about taking these medical professionals to court and seeking advice on this online.

There are much better ways to be a good parent today and to support your partner. This isn’t helping.

MN is child friendly. Child comes first. And I get that. But it is Rarely recognised or acknowledged the damage to the parents that these accusations do.

I fear you will get nowhere following it up.

You really are being over dramatic OP. The anger in your posts is palpable. Take some time to calm down and get things in perspective.

Hi Op

There are a couple of things that stand out in your post, i agree you must have felt terrible and I don't think the surgery handled this situation as well as they could have however:

So to start, my partner took my son to the gp to the doctors for his 12 week injections today (which were late as they forgot to update our address after we moved, yes we informed them of the change) - It is your responsibility as a parent to ensure that your child is vaccinated on time, that is what the red book schedule is for it is your copy of what is due and when, so really this point, although frustrating isn't really an issue as it should be down to you to book the 12 weeks imms.

After my partner pointed this out, as they hadn't noticed you were there for imms, not a full examination of your child, a full physical examination will not be part of the immunisation process.

Now, this paediatrician noticed this was not a bruise within seconds, surely any half qualified health visitor or gp should've spotted that before treating us as if we were criminals. The GP - General Practitioner is not a paediatrician, any clinician who was unsure about the mark would refer if they felt it could be down to abuse, the GP was doing their job correctly and safeguarding your child - maybe handled badly but still doing their job.

the social worker still wants to visit our 4yo daughter tomorrow for whatever stupid reason which to be quite honest I think is not necessary as the gp and health visitor were wrong. this is just box ticking protocol, they have to follow up, it really doesn't matter what you think.

I have already swapped everyone out of the GP but I'm still not going to use the GP due to fear alone after this, I've only swapped out of principle and in case of sure emergency as I will not let any harm come to my kids! - this would raise a red flag with any health provider, you are essentially going to withhold treatment from your child.

I appreciate you must be angry, being accused of something you haven't done, however the system is robust because children are abused & safeguarding is in place for a reason.

I do think you are overacting and trying to find any small thing to 'back up your case' I really think you should let the dust settle as PP have said and break everything down and really ask yourself what are you hoping to achieve?

You need to follow the correct complaints procedure - via the Practice Manager or PALS.

Glad your little one is OK, no harm done just a bit of stress all round but please calm down and have a think about what you've written.

I would have felt really scared in your shoes too OP and would feel anger towards the GP that's natural.

But you dont have a case at all, the GP flagged something up and it was sorted within a day. They were just doing their job (I completely understand how this would shake you up though theres no point denying that) Swap GPs and put a complaint in if you wish but I dont feel like theres any need for it to go further. It's your adrenaline talking and clouding your judgement on what actually happened.

I will say thankfully GPs who do suspect abuse, dont take the parents feeling in to consideration and keep them at the doctors. God knows how many kids would slip through the net if the authorities were too scared to confront parents.

Baby p was a case of doctors and social services failing in multiple instances. So as a result, innocent people are dragged through the dirt because they make very poor systems to protect children.

As for the birthmark impeding his life in anyway, bloody tests have been done and a further appointment has now been arranged as these can grow internally if not monitored which would result in health issues.

We showed the GP the spot, then the birthmark, then the growing birthmark, now the incredibly large birthmark on multiple occasions as we were concerned. But they would never escalate the matter. Despite the fact the specialist told us yesterday that these birthmarks should always be referred to, and monitored by him.

I work in a GP surgery, and I've never know a parent to be held hostage when a concern has risen, and we sadly have a lot of cases on our load, and some that are raised by us when presented with suspicious marks or other things...often they're is perfectly good explanations for markings etc, but sadly not always. The GP has a duty of care to report anything they feel alarmed with.

In your case, I would make a formal complaint to the practice manager and list your concerns such as address not changed which resulted in late immunization for baby, distressing partner by keeping her held at the surgery with a 12 week old baby, that she was the one who raised the concern and then felt like she was treated as she had abused her child etc.
the manager should then offer a meeting to discuss your concerns, and be able to explain the reasons behind the actions that happened that day. You could ask them about the mark being on the child's record and how to go about having it removed...I can't remember if you need for contact child protection direct or the surgery as I'm on maternity leave, and have been for 11 months, so my brain pretty much no longer works.
PALS also can handle patient complaints.
Sadly, I don't think this would be a case of medical negligence, as the child was seen by a pediatric doctor, so there for the doctor has not neglected child by getting a second opinion.

My baby had a lump in cheek when five days old. We had to sit up the hospital for hours to be seen as midwife suspected it was an abscess and needed medical attention. Finally saw a pediatric doctor who had a look, red his notes and said 'this is really common with a forcep delivery and midwife should've know that', so it does happen where they tell you the wrong thing, and I felt the same frustration of 'why couldn't they tell, when another doctor took one look and knew'.

I'm sorry you've both had this bad experience

Actually, even if your childs medical record had a note to say that they may develop blemishes as a result of the birthmark, that would not stop this situation from arising. Even if the gp knows that, if they see a blemish and cant be certain that it is definitely related to the birthmark, then they have a safeguarding obligation, and a procedure they must follow. The child having a birthmark doesn't mean there isn't another reason for a questionable mark on its face. How many gps do you think would want to risk the safety of a child because they are unsure about diagnosing something which they rarely see? A referral to an expert and passing on safeguarding concerns is absolutely the right thing to do, and as many have noted, it saves childrens lives.

And again, if you still wanted a referral after a GP refused (?) to do one, why didn’t you seek a second opinion?

You are being way ott op. You are inconvenienced because of a process in place to protect children who are at risk and your first thought is to shout and scream for money. Take a step back, there is no financial gain to be made here and you would not win a claim.

Raise your concern rationally, with the relevant points. As you've not answered I assume you didn't follow the practises process for changing address and that is why it wasn't updated and you didn't bother contacting them about the vaccinations so those points are on you.

Strawberry birthmarks are very rarely referred btw, not ‘always’.

I do think you’re making bits of information up to add weight to your complaint.

They did refer you on though. You asked to be referred for the spot because of a birthmark. You were. But now you're complaining because the referral included safeguarding concerns which proved to be unfounded. You can't have it both ways.

Your baby has nothing to do with baby P or the errors that occured there. That was multi agency miscommunication and putting the want to keep families together about a child's safety. That's really fucking offensive to start trying to make any comparison to your slightly shitty day. Parents were investigated before and will be afterwards. Have you consisted why your nose is so out of joint about this? It happens a lot and we've debated that the GP surgery made a bad judgement call. Bad professional judgements happen, malicious allegations happen, inaccurate reports happen, and ss are trained and used to assessing genuine risk. You seem to think you should have some sort of special exemption because you might feel a bit offended but you dont. You've had a lot of good advice about complaints and birth masks which I suggest you act on.

Mustardscreams, we didn't seek a second opinion because we didn't know much about it and wrongly assumed the GP was in the right. They were not.

We followed all the appropriate methods to update our address, it's pretty straight forward...

We did contact them about the vaccinations as they were late. We chased it up. The nhs isn't exactly know for being on time so we weren't concerned until it had passed his date. Hence why we called.

So I don't understand how that is on us as our health visitor and GP had our phone numbers and didn't even call to show concern for a missed appointment. Really looking after the child on that one weren't they.