Advice on taking gp/hv to court

[Random92]

I'm new here, so not sure if I'm in the right spot.

Sorry in advance for the long post.

I'm looking for advice in trying to take my son's health visitor and GP to court for malpractice/negligence.

So to start, my partner took my son to the gp to the doctors for his 12 week injections today (which were late as they forgot to update our address after we moved, yes we informed them of the change)

While there, my partner informed them of a mark on his check that looks very much like a spot. We felt the need to mention this as he has a large strawberry birthmark on his head which started of similar to this (just to note, we had previously asked to see a specialist regarding this as we are very concerned as it looks almost ready to pop some days!)

After my partner pointed this out, as they hadn't noticed. They called in the health visitor and the gp who claimed it was a bruise. (What idiot confuses a fatty lump for a bruise and somehow is medically qualified?) As a result they got social services involved, and would not let my partner leave the doctors or the police would be called. (Just to note, preparations were only made to be out of the house for an hour, so no spare clothes, no extra bottles, no extras of anything.)

So roll on to 4 hours later, partner still held at the doctors, the social worker turns up as she has to drive my partner to the hospital for the little one to be examined. Where the specialist took one look at the baby and said it was a medical issue (fatty necrosis I believe?) not a bruise or anything inflicted by outside actions.

Now, this paediatrician noticed this was not a bruise within seconds, surely any half qualified health visitor or gp should've spotted that before treating us as if we were criminals. Now even though we have been cleared as its nothing we could of caused, the social worker still wants to visit our 4yo daughter tomorrow for whatever stupid reason which to be quite honest I think is not necessary as the gp and health visitor were wrong.

As any parent can imagine, the whole situation has been incredibly stressful, especially to my partner who they kept locked up all day and she gets very emotional and loves our little ones more than anything.
I feel we were treated as guilty until proven innocent and this should've of never been necessary if any half competent medical professional had checked the spot on our sons face in the first place. In total they kept our boy out of the house for 8 hours. We were lucky to have family that could collect our daughter from school.

Any advice on how to take this further would be greatly appreciated, as this is a permanent mark on our children's names, even though we did absolutely nothing wrong.

This has shattered any trust we have in our Heath care system, and has made me fearful of taking my own children to the doctors. We pointed out the mark! It would've went unnoticed otherwise!
I consider this a complete failure on the nhs and their procedures.

Signed, an upset father with a devastated partner.

Short version: health visitor called social services due to a medical issue, not an injury that anyone with eyes could see. Permanent mark on children's record.

I have already swapped everyone out of the GP but I'm still not going to use the GP due to fear alone after this

So what, you're not gonna use the new GP?

That is an irrational thought and would make you the negligent one. If your child needs the GP, you bring them. End of story. That is your duty of care.

Did they have our child's beat interests at heard when they wouldn't let my partner leave to get him a bottle? (Which they couldn't provide so I had to drive a great distance and time from work to go get him one?) Or did they have our child's best interest at heart when we couldn't arrange anyone to pick up our daughter from school?
Was it fair of then to make my partner sit in the waiting area of the GP whilst crying in front of everyone

Of course they can't let your partner leave in potential child safeguarding circs. You could/ should have left work to provide a bottle if necessary.

You've already said that you had family members available to collect your other child.

Not ideal, but GP surgeries don't often have spare rooms available and no one else knew why she was there (or crying) so no harm done.

You're being a bit ridiculous.

You sound completely over dramatic, sorry to be blunt. If you go to court for "medical negligence" you'll be laughed out. The only harm that came from it was a day of stress for you as the parents...your child was perfectly fine and not harmed by this "negligence" at all! It will not be on hisn"permanent record" as the outcome will also be there to say it's all fine!

My GP who's close to retirement age sent me to A&E with 4 week old DS as she said she "couldn't be sure" what she was hearing when she listened to his heart and chest. There was absolutely nothing wrong with him, I was sure of that at the time. I went to hospital, he was checked out, absolutely nothing wrong. Was I "livid" with the GP?! No! They are especially careful with babies and their job isnt necessarily to protect your feelings.

Misdiagnosis is considered Medical negligence. This is a drastic misdiagnosis as far as I'm concerned.

No it isn't. You'd have to prove that the GP acted below the expected level. They thought is was one thing and referred to a specialist on the same day who gave a correct diagnosis. You'd be very hard pushed to prove that the GP was negligent. They followed the correct procedure for the circumstances. You might not like it, I wouldn't either, but they still have to follow that procedure.

Secondly, your child's condition isn't worse because of what you perceive as negligence, and that is crucial for a medical negligence case. You would have to prove that your child's condition was considerably worsened by that 'negligence'. As all he missed out on was monitoring, you can't prove this either.

This sounds like a terrible experience, something similar happened to a friend of mine. But I think you need to chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. By all means, make a complaint to the practice but you haven’t got grounds to sue.

I have already swapped everyone out of the GP but I'm still not going to use the GP due to fear alone after this, I've only swapped out of principle and in case of sure emergency as I will not let any harm come to my kids!

Then you will be in trouble with social services.

I think some of the posters here are not putting themselves in your shoes and understanding the sheer level of fright you had, and the embarrassment you now feel, and will feel whenever you think about a HCP seeing your child’s records.

I guess the GP had to be sure your DC wasn’t in danger. But I would definitely move practice, as how would you feel happy to take your children there again? Also, because of their previous lack of referral on the birthmark, which if anything sounds like the area where they were more negligent.

The real issue for me would be why the social workers still want to come out and talk to your four year old, when they have been told there are no grounds to suspect abuse. Why do they still want to come? Their file should be closed, now, surely?

While safeguarding had been massively tightened up in recent years for very good reason, I do feel the effect on the parents has been neglected. You and your wife being so stressed is not going to be good for your kids. You being hesitant to seek medical advice for them in future will not be in their best interests either. This doesn’t seem to get factored in to their risk assessments or procedures, though. They could start to address this by rescinding the request to meet your other child. But it could be that the box-ticking mentality prevails.

Yes you have no case however horrific. The GP saw something they were unsure about (v common they are General Practionners) so you saw a specialist who diagnosed it

In order to safeguard children who need it sometimes innocent people get caught

Change surgeries due to the admin side and if you want make a PALs complaint that it could have been handled better and then move on

I'm glad your child is OK.

As should you be. I would have been quite concerned over such a mark on a wee one. What a relief that it wasn't anything more serious.

For what it's worth I'd feel exactly the same as you OP but unfortunately there's nothing more you can do about it except putting in a complaint

I had a (much more minor) but similar experience when I took my 8 month old to the doctors about a High temperature. She has a red birthmark on her belly and the doctor said it was a bruise and then noticed bruises on her shins from recently learning to climb and cruise. I was questioned and a 2nd doctor came in to check. It made me feel like I never wanted to take her back there again.

You need to calm down and gets some perspective. You are angry but there's no case here and everyone involved was doing their job properly. It was a terrible experience but it's over. File a complaint with the GP and move on. Doing anything else is going to cause you and your family more harm than good.

Btw, you could probably refuse the request to meet your four year old, but then there will be a black mark on your file, which they may use against you if any other query comes up in the future. So you in effect have very little rights in this situation. Better if you don’t outright refuse the visit, but instead ask why they’re coming, what procedure/policy they’re following, why they still want to come even though the medics have confirmed its a natural occurrence, etc. Let them make the decision for themselves.

You complain to PALS and the practice manager. A court wouldn’t even entertain this sadly.

Don’t worry about it being on the record. If you contact PALS it can get removed I believe with the health boards agreement. It’s usually added as a special note which can get changed regularly.

It’s an awful situation but they do have a job to do sadly and health professionals need to be extra cautious these days. Better to be wrong than leave a child at possible harm

Recent research has shown productivity is equal if not better. The idea is to reduce the working week to 32 hours. However no need to panic it is a long term goal to be phased in over 10 years.

I’m sure it was a frustrating and distressing experience but perhaps try and turn it round and be grateful we live in a country that takes what could be a tiny injury to a baby as a serious issue that needs checking. I think if I was in the Gp’s shoes I’d do the same - who wants to find they’ve made a mistake down the line and a child was being abused?

Sorry you went through that BUT I think the GP acted in the child’s best interests. Obviously they were not happy to dismiss it as just a spot so followed safeguarding protocols. Clearly it’s been very upsetting for you all and I’m glad it was quickly resolved at the hospital but any concerns must be flagged to prevent children being harmed. In light of this you won’t have a case for medical negligence etc because the protocol is any marks on a non mobile baby is an immediate referral to social services.

Okay it was a shit situation but I can tell you now as an ex HV I am no expert in looking at bruises and fatty tissue ...I am not a doctor and I always erred on the side of caution if unsure.

In my time I’ve met...

The baby who’d had obvious finger marks on his face and had obviously had his face held and squeezed hard,

The baby who was quiet and withdrawn and sleepy who had a fractured skull that neither of his parents could explain .
The child who disclosed sexual abuse and whose mother knew Dad was abusing ALL the children.
The mother who told me her toddler had no pain receptors as she could hit him really hard and he wouldn’t cry (no doubt one fucked adult man now).

And many more...

The GP obviously didn’t feel confident it wasn’t a bruise and wanted a paediatrician (a second opinion) to conform one way or another.

It’s called SAFEGUARDING. You are not abusive parents but believe me there are parents out there who are abusive....just see the above.

HCP are always told to err on the side of caution and we do.

If they were rude, abrupt and horrible to your partner then that needs addressing. But if they explained what they were doing and why (even if you did not agree) then you have no grounds for complaint except your natural annoyance that you feel accused of abuse. They didn’t accuse you of abuse....just checked that the bruise wasn’t a bruise.,..and yes had it been a bruise then they’d have wanted to know why.

And yes to amending records.

All the records will show is concern about a mark....and investigation followed by “diagnosis of fatty tissue”. There will be no record that you are abusive....just that the various HCPs followed protocol.

You can’t sue for negligence because there is no damage to claim for. However you can and should make a formal complaint.

The GP and practice were following thr rules. Your point about getting a diagnosis first before SS is valid but resources just don't allow for it.

I understand your anger but given there was no actual harm to your family by the process is your anger due to feeling aggrieved that your family could be perceived as abusive? .If that's the case you need to look at the big picture.

Sadly child abuse does happen and within "nice" families. Health professionals have to safeguard and err on the side of caution.

If there are specifics areas where you think it could have been done handled than channel your energies at government who make the rules that professionals have to follow.

you have to go through formal complaint procedure before you sue for clinical negligence - & after that the solicitor wont pursue unless there are suitable grounds & believe me they would have to be stronger reasons than these. Change of address is the admin staff - loss of notes is also down to paperwork nothing to do with the individual gp the main point is did your dc suffer real harm? If the GP or HV see something which could be of possible child safety concern they have to check. No doubt the way this is done was distressing for you but you have to understand that neither GP's or HV are experts is everything. Check the complaint procedure on the NHS website but I can tell you from experience that going through the legal system for clinical negligence would need a stronger reason than those you have provided (& yes we did, after going through the complaint procedure, but real harm was done to the specific person concerned & even going through that process was stressful beyond belief & took a long time to go through & unless the solicitor believes you can win you will have to pay thousands & you could loose & you might have to pay their expenses too).

Another example of the “Nanny State” - England has become.

Honestly posts like these make me embarrassed to come from England.

Thank goodness I don’t live there anymore!

Feel so sorry for you and your partner - I hope you do get to take this to court and you do sue them.

I understand why you’re so upset, this is a horrible thing to go through. However, this is the opposite of medical negligence. The GP was concerned and referred on to a specialist to look at it. This happened swiftly (in the NHS, same day is very swift indeed) and it was resolved. The social worker has to visit you at home to be sure - imagine the hell that would rain down on them if there was a problem and they didn’t.

Misdiagnosis can be a form of negligence - my mother died because because her primary cancer was misdiagnosed for 18 months, even though the biopsy was inconclusive. Had they diagnosed earlier correctly there may have been a surgical option. However we can’t prove this, so there’s no case.

If your child had been removed from you for a prolonged period and they’d delayed seeing a specialist, you may have a case. As it stands they’ve followed procedure.

I know I would also have found this situation extremely stressful. However, the HV and GP have to be cautious with unexplained marks on a small defenceless baby. They were doing their job well.

Opposite to the course of action you are considering, I think it is wise to build up a good relationship with your GP. If you start avoiding them that is more likely to cause you problems as you might leave a medical issue too long and end up in hospital with a child who is iller than they would have been had you taken them to the GP at the right time. That will flag up more issues. Please don't avoid the GP. Put your children's health first.

It’s post like this make me happy to know that safe guarding is taking seriously in our country.

I’m sorry that you have been through a stressful time but honestly I would be happy that my child’s GP does respond to things and does more than the bare minimum needed.

Your GP didn’t misdiagnose, they had cause to believe your child may have had a bruise and instantly referred them to someone who could say for definite.