What level of anger is 'normal' in parenting?

[Iwanttodobetter]

I don't know where else I can ask this, please try not to judge me too harshly, I'm on here to ask for help and advice as I don't know that the way I feel sometimes is normal.

I have a 2 year old and a newborn and prior to being a parent I almost never got angry, especially at others, I never shouted and my emotions tended to come out as tears.

I know that it's not uncommon to lose your shit and shout at your kids, but after reading this article the other day, I'm worried that this is not in the normal range of angry 😔

Sorry for the lengthy post, I'm not sure how to write this exactly. At my most angry I have screamed and sworn, slammed doors, punched/kicked doors, thrown things, basically got so angry I've felt that I wanted to smash the house up.
I have always walked away from my son into another room to do this (but he's definitely heard it and it's upset him) and it tended to be when he was much much younger and I was really struggling with his sleep (he was a really really terrible sleeper). However very occasionally on a really really bad day I might still do some of the physical stuff like door slamming, although this is very very rare for me now.
I have never hit my son but there have been times I've been scared I have crossed some sort of line where I have handled him roughly or grabbed him hard and really really shouted at him.
I'm trying so hard to be calm and patient with him but I can go from Zen and calm to absolutely furious very easily. It doesn't help that he is two and hence being pretty bloody difficult and defiant in general. I've done a little better being calm with him recently but I can still seem to fully explode at him so easily. This doesn't translate into other areas of my life, I'm not generally angrier or more irritable.

I have some difficulties with noise sensitivity and overload due to a minor head injury (pre kids) and recently I've been particularly struggling with the baby crying whilst dealing with toddler demands.
I've screamed at my newborn to SHUT UP at the top of my voice and it horrifies me. It's so hard to describe but it's like the noise/stress is filling me up head to toe and I try to keep calm and keep it from spilling over but I just can't and it has to come out in this shouting explosion.
I don't know how normal it is to find the noise so hard to cope with as this is all I've ever known in parenting.

Here's the link to the article I mentioned earlier, I cried while reading this as I could relate so strongly to what the author said. She describes perfectly how I also feel at times.
parenting.nytimes.com/parent-life/mother-rage?fbclid=IwAR0ipyrlpXoEJ4ISKXG9RS5qS8rDaBSM801OvY0FDBkH8yvo1bQ5MHQg_Fg

I don't feel depressed (I have had depression once in the past but generally I don't experience on going mental health problems) or generally anxious or anything, mostly feel pretty happy, it's just my response to my toddler in particular feels so excessive sometimes.
I want to do better for him, he deserves a much calmer and gentler parent than I am managing to be 😔

I really don't know what to suggest but it really is not on. Your baby is only two and could not possibly make sense if these outbursts. Even if he were to be older, it really is not on. Think about if you saw someone else behaving like that what you would think

You do very well taking yourself out of the room though. Other people will come on here and give you lots of good advice how to change your behaviour but be sure of one thing, change it you must.

One thing that has changed my level of rage (although of course it still exists) is realising that I am powerless in situations that enrage me. He won’t eat. I progressively become an evil monster in his eyes in days and weeks and months. But then I give up. I don’t care. The rage has reached its limit and has no where else to go so I resign myself to complete apathy. Having that happen once has been monumental in dealing with further instances of rage. It starts up and I realise again, why do I care? Fuck em.

Fuck kids are hard.

So yeah, stop uncorking your bottle early and slamming doors/shouting until your rage has no where else to go. That’s when the apathy starts.

I've been reading The Book You Wish Your Parents Had Read, and one of the things that resonated with me is to try and unpick where your anger or rage is coming from, as sometimes you'll find that it links back to your own upbringing and the way your parents parented you.

I do sympathise as I struggle with noise too and it does make me more unreasonable than I would be normally. I think just walking away, even if there's god awful screaming, and just putting on some noise cancelling headphones or sticking some white noise on super high is better than staying and getting angry.

But a lot in that article you linked resonated with me. I don't think it's hugely uncommon; I just think a lot of people won't admit to feeling that way on occasion. Especially if you're the default parent or taking on the emotional load of parenthood, which I think mothers tend to do more than fathers.

Do you have ear plugs and ear defenders? You can use both together. Look up how to put ear plugs in properly, it makes them work much better. I'm also sensitive to noise and find it difficult to cope when my child is screaming etc - being able to block the worst of the noise out really helps me stay calm.

I also, and I'm sure this isn't a particularly nice thing to do as it's sort of using someone else's grief for my own ends in a way, think of someone I know who lost their baby at full term when DD is being particularly difficult. Sometimes just that feeling of 'X would love to have the chance to be screamed at by her baby' kind of puts things in perspective a bit. I know it's not the difficulty Olympics and one person's grief and tragedy doesn't make our lives easier, but just that second of reflection and 'what if' sometimes works really well to balance things again.

I think you need to take regular breaks from your kids. Get a babysitter. You don’t mention a DH, but in order for you to cope you need some respite. The kids will soon grow out of this stage but you will have different challenging behaviors to deal with and quite possibly your kids will have taken on board that shouting and slamming doors as a coping mechanism which will not set them up well for teenage/later life.
You are getting overwhelmed and you need help. You must ask for it from other adults.
On another note, my mother smacked us as kids a lot and recently she told me that when she did it, it wasn’t to discipline but to make herself feel better. We have all had a difficult relationship with her and it has affected all of us badly. We also resent our dad for not doing more to intervene and make things better.
You need to go on the “naughty step” yourself and actually read some of those annoying books like “How to Talk So That Little Kids Listen ,etc.”

When you feel that cup filling up, don't wait for it to overflow. Leave immediately. Get a playpen for the toddler and stick him in it. Put the baby in its basket or cot. Go and sit in another room, stick headphones with white noise or relaxing music on, and spend five minutes decompressing, looking on Facebook, reading an article, just something.

Five minutes of crying won't do either any harm. But just remove yourself from the environment when you feel it start to build, dont persevere or wait for it to subside.

I have no advice OP as I find myself in the same boat alarmingly frequently. I have a 3.5yr old & a 16month old. Parenting is hard. No-one tells you just how difficult & relentless it can be.
I'm finding it slightly easier now the eldest is at preschool 3days a week but on days where they are both home it can be a real struggle. I find that being out the house works well, almost like because we're open to public criticism we're all on our best behaviour.

To be honest, I don't think that level of anger is normal, but I don't think you are a bad person. You sound burnt out and overwhelmed.

What do you have in terms of help and support? Do you get any time for yourself?

I'd start by examining your situation and figuring out what is within your control that you can change to help re-energise and de-stress. Perhaps look into some counselling. Good luck

That level of anger is definitely not normal and what you are doing to your children is abuse. You need bet professional help starting with your GP and HV.

I get that kids are hard, I have a new born and a 3 yr old. A 2 yr old is still a baby themselves and needs lots of support and patience so it must be really tough but you decided to have them and your the adult in this situation and you really must seek out help.

I understand as I have lost my temper and shouted/screamed at my older child (3.5) more than I can count this year. I've also handled him roughly especially eg when he won't walk to the time out step himself so I have to put him there.

I had another baby at the beginning of the year and as a result I find myself just having no patience with the elder one. I think it's because all my patience is used up on the baby! Plus I am suffering with anxiety related to my eldest's behaviour. I'm going to read that article.

You're not alone. Equally you (and the rest of us) need to do something about it.

You have the insight to realise this acting out of your anger needs to stop, so this is positive. I experienced the kind of parenting you describe and it damaged my bond with my mother. When I realised how poorly I was parented I lost respect for her. Unfortunately it has had a massive impact on my mental health and ability to form satisfying relationships. I am not telling you this to make you feel bad. I can tell you feel bad already. I am telling you so you will seek help to manage your anger and stress so you do not damage the precious bond with your children. Ask you GP for a referral to IAPT. Ask your HV for parenting classes. Consider medication to help calm your stress, even if you do not feel depressed. There is every possibility your head injury is contributing to the problem. There is a charity called Headway who may be able to advise you. There is still time to turn this around.

OP I could have written this post word for word when my 3 year was a baby. He was a terrible sleeper and I did not grasp just how unwell the lack of sleep was making me. He was also a Velcro baby so I never got the chance for physical space.

How your sleep? Do you get any time to yourself?

I spoke to my dr and I was referred to a counselling place for new mums. Honestly even just knowing I was getting an hour a week to sit and now be shouted out if I dared put him down helped enormously.

He sleeps fine now and I have time for myself. No more rage.

I read somewhere that when my DC walks into a rpoom I am in I should have a look of happy welcome on my face - which I often didn't as I was still cross for getting little sleep/ their last tantrum etc etc. But it's something to try and would change their behaviour towards you.
Second thing was that their first 2 or maybe it was 3 years are the most important in their development as social beings. So what you do with them now might come back to haunt you in their later years. They are not developed humans they aren't naughty cos they are selfish, or crying to upset you , they have no concept of fairness or reasonableness. They just are.
Definitely try to arrange breaks from them. I had no relatives nearby, never got breaks , and DH didn't help . I feel for you.

I feel you. Do you have had pnd? I do and my rage scares me sometimes. I can't cope and I feel broken literally broken. Usually after a 11 hours and work and 3 hours of being whined at I just sit and sob now (not sure that's better though than shouting).
I'm having cbt. Not sure if it's helping or not as only a few weeks in, but I wrote down every hour how I felt nd it might help you notice triggers (they might not be what u think they are).
I'm. Sorry your going through this and good luck

for you. This parenting lark is hard.
I found that my rage would be worse the week before my period, i could always tell when i was due as i would find my hands clenching when the kids were chattering on at me.
I found some supplements that helped me (agnus castus, vit D, calcium and magnesium - still don't know which ones, but that combination certainly helped).
The other thing that i did is take time for myself, so i got into the habit of walking my dog for a good hour or 2 every Sunday (the only day DH has off).
My dc are older now, so i can leave them for a while to go walking. If need space, i can now have it and i no longer feel any rage at them. (Still get annoyed, but all in proportion).
I would suggest tracking your rages to see if hormones are at play and building in regular breaks from your dc, even if you have to pay someone to sit with them for an hour, (maybe a responsible teenager?).
Also echo pp's that when you feel the rage building, put the dc in a safe space and take yourself away. Don't wait until it bubbles over.
If you feel you can't control it on your own, go to the GP and ask for help.

I’m finding spending time 1:1 with the older daughter is really helping our relationship too. It’s does have to be long just an hour at a time.

I really appreciate all your replies, will respond below.

Mummoomoocow I know what you mean re the apathy, I can get to that place sometimes, it doesn't feel good but it's better than raging.

Celebelly I've been trying to figure out WHY I'm getting so angry with my toddler, I really don't know why I get so furious with him so easily.
I've heard good things about this book, I think I will actually get a copy and read it (I find it hard to get myself to read anything but fiction).
Often after I have got angry I am so upset with myself and for my son, I think just as you said, I think about the people who can't have kids or have lost kids and here I am failing to parent well or appreciate what I have 😔

EatsFartsAndLeaves I've been thinking I need to get some ear defenders, I have good musicians ear plugs with filters but they take time to put them in properly, I need something I can just grab and throw on.

snowqu33n My son has just started nursery this week as we get some funded hours for him, I think having this break from him is going to really help. I have a partner, we share childcare but I definitely still do the majority and don't often get more than a couple of hours away from my son on the odd occasion here and there.
I don't have any family help, we've never really had anyone take him for us and we can't afford a babysitter. I don't really feel overwhelmed in general, just overloaded in the moment (stressed by the baby screaming, overloaded by the noise he's making and dealing with my toddler trying to talk to me/ask me things at the same time) or angry with my toddler for doing something or not doing something.
I definitely don't agree with smacking and I really want to be managing my little one's behaviour gently and appropriately. I know what I SHOULD do and I've seen how much better it works, but in the moment I just don't manage to always respond how I should.
I just need to sort out my response to him, I want to be the sort of parent he deserves, not this shouty one he encounters more often than he should.

Celebelly the problem is I'm not always aware that I'm losing it until I lose it. Post head injury I am not as good at recognising how I'm feeling and identifying that I'm becoming overloaded.
The thing I struggle with with this advice re walking away (I've heard many parents recommend this), is that when I have walked away from say the crying baby to give myself a chance to calm down, it hasn't helped.
It takes a long time for me to come back down, longer than I would feel comfortable leaving my baby crying for and I still feel stressed while I can hear him crying, usually more so because the crying gets worse when I've put him down and walked away.
I think the ear defenders will really help, I'll order some now.

tempnamechange98765
Thank you for your honesty, I really appreciate knowing it's not just me struggling, I feel similar re anxiety about my eldest's behaviour, I'm wondering if that's partly why I sometimes react the way I do.
I hope you get some support too and things improve for you, this is so hard.

sparklefarts
The worst rages I have ever had have always been about sleep and they were at the height of the sleep deprivation. My eldest woke every 40/45 minutes for many months somewhere between 4 months and a year old. I night weaned earlier than recommended as I was really worried about how little I felt I was coping and that really helped.
My new baby sleeps really well thankfully and I don't actually feel that tired. I don't get a lot of time to myself as she is not that happy with anyone but me yet, so she spends a lot of time in the sling being worn. However this is causing a lot of back pain and discomfort and I've recently realised that I'm much more irritable when I'm in pain. Planning to see sling people to get help adjusting how I'm wearing it to see if this helps and trying to get a balance between using the most stress free solution to getting the baby to sleep Vs giving my back a chance to rest.

Fatshedra
I take a lot of action to make sure my eldest really feels my love and affection, that isn't hard for me to do, I'm always happy to see him and want to cuddle and kiss him and tell him I love him a lot.

I've tried to be brutally honest in my post as I wanted honest advice, but I may have made it sound worse than it is.
I rarely get to the level of rage where I want to smash the house up, I last felt like that during pregnancy and I truly believe that was hormones.
It's mostly that I shout too easily and more often than I would like and I feel like my reactions to my son's normal 2 year old behaviours are excessive.
Despite this I feel we have a really strong bond and that he is a happy and well adjusted little boy, thank god.
I always always apologise to him and debrief with him, cuddle and spend some quality time together. That doesn't excuse or fix it I know, but as well as try harder next time, it's all I can do once I have behaved like that.

Spanglyprincess1 I don't THINK I have PND, I'm very aware of it and I try to check in with myself so to speak, but no I don't think that is the case. I'm so sorry to hear you are going through that and I'm glad you're getting some help, CBT can be amazing.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply, I'm taking on all that you said.
I have been working really hard on my reactions in the last few weeks and I have definitely made progress and am dealing with difficult behaviour much better over all.
My main concern is how easily I go from fine to furious and why this is triggered by my toddler and no one/nothing else.
I haven't got to the level of anger where I want to break things for a long time, I was just trying to be as honest as possible about how I can be at my worst.
But I'm scared that I'll end up back there again when/if my new baby's sleep goes totally to pot.

I'm going to buy ear defenders, buy this book 'the book you wish your parents had read' and seek out my local charity that supports mums who are struggling.
I think the key is that I need to unpick why i am so triggered by my eldest.

you need serious help how can you shout and smash stuff up in front of a two year old and tell a new born to shut up , poor things you should give them to a family member to look after while you have some therapy

@sh13 unhelpful.

@iwanttodobetter - I could almost be reading this about myself. You have my full empathy and sympathy. I really hope things get better for you and I can hear how much you love and care about your children. It sounds like you're a great mum who just needs a bit of help and some techniques. Best of luck

I get really angry too. The only thing that has helped me is regular time off, away from them.

And sleep of course!

@sh13 thank you for your kind words and helpful advice.

I came here because I know this isn't okay and I want to be a good parent.
I don't WANT to be shouting at a baby or a toddler.

I do a lot of things really really well as a parent and my son is thriving, partially in spite of my crap parenting but also as a result of the good things I do too.
I lose my temper and that is not okay, I'm working really hard on that and I've been doing a lot better. I came here to ask advice because I want to be the best parent I can be and I'm never going to stop trying to improve.

I hope you work on your sympathy and your ability to be kind to others who are struggling, I think that's something you need help with yourself.

@Euromillsplz

Thank you so much, I really needed to read that today.

I've had a long chat with my partner about everything and how we both need to do better (he had been doing his fair share of shouting at our toddler too at times, we've both been so tired and stressed, my poor son 😔), we've read some things together and agreed how we're going to respond to certain behaviours that are really frustrating and things have been really good in the last few days, we're both staying calm and spending some really quality time as a family.

I also spoke to my health visitor and asked for more support, she's going to come more often and has suggested a couple of services I can access for more help.
I think the respite provided by nursery is going to really help and that's pretty new, so I'm hoping things will continue to improve from here