Have you put any of your friends off having children (inspired by Bea's thread about arguments)

[legalalien]

A couple that we know has recently announced their decision not to have children, based on their observations of friends who do have children - they've considered it at length and decided that neither of them is prepared to put their careers at risk / on hold, that they like their life as it is, and that they're not prepared to undergo the lifestyle changes that they've seen us (and other friends) undergo.

Some other close friends of ours are now reaching the same point - they've seen how much having a child impacts on your lifestyle, in terms of flexibility to do what you want, when you want (I hasten to add that we haven't been moaning to them about parenthood - just that they've been observing keenly).

Anyone else have a similar story?

I can see, to be honest, how far my children have curtailed my life in a lot of ways. I am, on balance, resigned to that curtailment because for me there is a balance of fulfilment. But I'd like, ooh, not to have the grind of it. I'd like not to have the fishhooks-in-the-brain of love and tie to them. I would like to feel separate again, in a way that I haven't done since I first started incubating DD1.

And some people want that, very clearly, and not the muddling it up that children bring.

I don't actually have any friends who don't have children but I think my bro and SIL have certainly been put off by seeing how my and her sister's life is.

But money/work have probably been major factors too tbh.

My best pal here is childfree by choice. She's very unselfish and generous. She's lovely with kids. She just never wanted the emotional investment that comes with them. She's the eldest of 11, and knows what goes into bringing them up, so decided early on it wasn't for her.

She has an interesting life.

I think people see it from the outside, and may recoil slightly at the work, but don't realise that they are missing the biggest transformation, which is internal and to do with love. You can't see how much people love their children and how lovely it is to feel like that, and parents almost never talk about it with the childless, because it would be insensitive, so they assume that having children is all negative, because that's the obvious stuff. I can see how it happens.

Oh, my friends with kids went on and on at me about how fabulous it was, when I didn't have any

Then they'd wonder why none of their friends without kids wanted to stay in touch...

On the other hand, they will never know the sense of worry, doubt, guilt and heavy emotional investment that a parent does. They will live their lives free of such intensity.

Having kids is like making a Horcrux. You split your heart, soul and who you are when you have one.

a friend of mine was round once when ds poohed in the bath (& i slightly over-reacted....). she said it put her biological clock back by several years .

classy huh?!

As I said, the bad stuff is very visible!

I'm re-reading A Life's Work at the moment (don't all jump on me at once, I don't doubt there's been some sort of Rachel Cusk controversy here on mumsnet in the mists of time and was quite taken with the phrase "with the baby's birth, a lifetime of vanity vanished into thin air."

I think that's what my friends see and don't like the look of - but I don't think it's something you can understand from the outside looking in.

[oh, I wasn't all THAT vain]
[MI - meet up at some point sounds good]

WHY am I incapable of closing brackets?

God Rachel Cusk is a one woman festival of self-pity and melodrama, isn't she? So tiresome.

Anyway it hasn't, for RC. More's the pity.

I don't undersatnd why many parents think that childless people have 'empty' and 'sad' lives , I really don't.
My dad once said to me he thought people who didn't have children were selfish , I guess because they didn't give up a large part of teir lives to bring children up.
I just don't get it.
Sometimes I feel selfish for having kids because I often feel like broodiness overcame sanity.
me and dh love our kids but i don't think we are particalarly good parents. We both hated the newborn stage with both kids, we hated having our sleep disrupted, the fact that when you get in from work you don't get a minute to unwind, your weekends are spend in mind numbing ways like pushing aswing for half an hour.

Tbh rather than think childless couples have empty and sad lives I rather envy their determination not to get swept up into the mindset that says you are not a proper family unless you have 2.4 chldren.

It's the saem as single people. Smug marrieds always say 'oh they must be so lonely' etc etc. When in reality they probably have heaps of friends and loads of free time to do with what they like.

we have a fair few friends without children. Most by choice - can't say I feel any sadness for them. Their lives, their decisions. They are involved by being godparents to lots of children and that's as much involvement with children as they want! I may have gone through life and not had children. They certainly weren't in any plan I happened to have!

I feel far more sorrow for couples who desperately want children but can't have them. It seems so unfair.

Well said, Lucy!

thnaks Expat, was feeling a bit ranty as my dad makes me feel so mad on this subject

My mum leads that sort of life- performing all over the world with leading opera companies, out at the theatre every night, flies to Sorrento at a moments notice, tons of friends...but she feels sorry for friends without grandchildren!

Message withdrawn

When I was young(er) I want at 3/4 kids, having grown up in such a family. I enjoyed the chaos and noise.
Then I had my daughter, as a single parent, so no real chance of having anymore at least for a while! Now I'm happy that way, it's just me and her, quite relaxed and easy. Plus I do find myself yearning to take off sometimes, go travelling, move to Italy/Australia/anywhere. Without dd I probably wouldn't go but with dd I can't go. I mean I couldn't take her away from her father and her extended family and indeed how would I cope without their support? Basically it gives me heart to think that as it is she will be eighteen when I'm forty and then I'll have the opportunity to go, which is a great feeling to have.

What I'm saying, with some difficulty, is that she is great, and I would do the same if I could go back but you are tied down very firmly and I can see why some people may decide to forgo the ups because of the downs. Especially as they have not experienced having their own child, so can't really see what it gives you.

And it gives you a lot. But it takes away a lot too. For me the balance is on the side of giving but I don't really want anymore, I have my girl.

I wanted 3/4 kids.

Jeez, woman! PREVIEW.

In answer to OP: I don't think I've put anyone off. My best friend is disinclined in general and my sister has said she now wants children having previously not.