Am at breaking point with Potty Training

[waterjungle]

Started potty training at end of April when DS was 2.10. By the end of June we had slight improvement in that we were taking him to the toilet hourly and he was wee-ing. He has never asked for a wee with the exception of when he gets in the bath or 3 or 4 times within an hour of getting into bed he has shouted down to us that he needs the toilet, I take him and he wees - so there is awareness there. I often take him in the day and and he can wet himself 10/20 mins after being taken, I ask him to make sure everything is out and he insists "there's nothing left in the tank!"

We went through weeks of withholding poo's for days. Then only going on the potty in front of the the television, within days he worked out that he could use this as an excuse to sit and watch TV for long periods without producing anything. Within 30 mins of taking him of he would do it in his pants.

Then we switched to only doing it on the toilet (with training seat), he was allowed to read a book, again he would then sit for ages and not do anything, we would get him off and he would go in his pants.

Tried rewards such as stickers, chocolate, toys or getting to watch a cartoon afterward, nothing seems to motivate him, if anything it seems to provoke a tantrum that he can't have them now. Poo Goes to Poland App failed, he just wanted to watch it on the phone while sitting on the toilet for up to an hour doing nothing - again when we took him off he would poo in pants within 30/45 mins. I have put a stop to him sitting for as long as he wants to try and making the visits shorter (if he hasn't done anything in 5/10 mins then he has to get off) this seems to have made no difference.

He has now regressed to up to 5 poo accidents a day. He seems totally passive in the process, will not talk about it, will deny he has done it in his pants. He will sit on the toilet and make no effort to push it out. He will (sorry this is gross) let it hang out his bum and deny it's there - for this reason we cannot go back to no pants as he will ignore what is happening and let it smear everywhere.

I mentioned to the nursery that I was thinking of going back to pullups but still taking him to the toilet for my own sanity, their view is that it would be a mistake.

I never thought I would cry about poo but I have. I also have a 10 month old so am trying to juggle him as well. My husband and I are arguing about the best way to proceed - we are at a total loss.

Please someone help or give us some ideas/hope/anything........

Forgot to say we have the Oh Crap book. That's the method we followed for the first month.

I can't give more constructive advice because I was quite lucky with my DD... But if it's this hard I'd say go back to pull ups. Don't berate him for it, if he asks or moans about it say "It's OK darling, I don't think you're quite ready yet" and try again in a few months. Boys do apparently take a bit longer to get it.

Also DD was in night time nappies for ages after we'd cracked day times, just for insurance.

Sorry it's so tough for you

Put him back in pull-ups. The nursery may think it's a 'mistake' but they're not living with the consequences.

I should add that I did try unsuccessfully once, she wasn't getting it at all and then we tried again about 6m later and she got it in a few days.
The second time round we tried open bribery - one smartie for a wee in the toilet and two for a poo. Weaned her off the reward after about 2 weeks and then told her they'd run out. (I ate the rest.)

Bribery is quite blatant but hopefully won't scar her for life

I'd put him in cloth nappies, they can feel the wetness so should help. Back when everyone used cloth, average age to potty train was 18 months!

This sounds like a nightmare for you and him, OP.

The overwhelming thing that comes from your post is that your son hates all the attention on weeing and pooing. Mine didn't go to nursery so we didn't have the pressure and we didn't potty train as such. They were both 3 something when they became ready and started being able to use the toilet. My son preffered nappies to poo for a long time becauee he didnt like the drop from the toilet seat into the water. We gave him nappies until he decided it was too much of a faff to go and get one on.

I'm just telling you this because being child led and sort of scaffolding- watching for readiness and being ready to offer a support to the next stage- felt quite gentle and whar you are describing sounds so stressful and I'm wondering how much room you have just to step right back and let him start from baby on this?

He's really, really not into this and he's going to pretend he has no idea why you are talking about until you give up, is what it sounds like. I am not an expert but putting yourself in the position if having to remind him to per bef9re you go out sounds like a giant pain in the arse. I have never ever asked my child to pee or try to poo when they themselves have not signalled that they needed the loo except maybe handful of times when we have been going in a car or bus for a long time, when I might suggest that if they need a apee even a bit it's a g9od idea now because they will have to wait a long time otherwise. But even then I'm basically letting them make the decision, just providing information that they can use to manage their own toilet habits. And they do, very well. I think the more you can leave them to this, the better because otherwise you are turning a perfectly normal thing that the majority of children without any SEN can work oug themselves into a massive point of contention and your child won't be just thinking about does he need the loo or not, but instead be calculating what it means if he can hold this one off or whatever.

Sparklyboots

My feeling is that you may be right. I just feel so bad that I've messed up. I remember when he was about 18months he was starting to ask us to change his nappy - that was probably him telling us he was ready but I thought he couldn't possibly be at that age. Now I think we missed the boat there - now everyone is saying don't give up, don't go back, I'm afraid I'm messing up again even though I'm clearly not doing a great job at present.

He is so able at everything else but I think your description of not being "into it" hit that nail on the head. He is just completely closing down on any mention of it now. It has even got to the point when we take him to the loo for a wee he will go completely limp and refuse to stand up let alone take an active role.

Watching with interest, we've just started with dd aged 2.2. She's been taking her nappy off when (I assume) it's uncomfortable so think that's her letting us know she's ready but so far, she'll sit on the potty and eat a biscuit or watch some tv then stand up and do a wee next to it 🤦🏼‍♀️

Her sticker chart has arrived today and we've also started dressing her in knickers round the house so that she can actually feel when she goes but so far it's not deterred her.

In your case op it does seem like it's became a big battle of wills and he's just switching off. Maybe giving it a few weeks to break the habits he's in and then trying again will do some good? I'd be ignoring the nursery as they're obviously not dealing with what you are. What are his toilet habits like at nursery?

An, don't think you have messed up, I think you have just discovered that he is quite strong willed is all. I know exactly what it is like to be getting advice from all directions, and feel so responsible for making the right choices. I found tuning out everything but what my child was showing me they needed could really help clarify what I should be doing and ground me in connection to them. Remember they want to grow into successful adults after all, and they want to be healthy and strong and not starve, we don't have to direct or take charge through normal, developmental processes. Trust yourself and your child OP

thetinytyrantsmother

Good luck with your dd!
DS habits have mirrored the way its been going at home. Slow initial progress, tentative signs that we are on our way to cracking it, then complete reversal. He is coming home with 4/5 pairs of soiled pants a day (he attends nursery 2 full days a week). He was frequently gone through all the MANY changes of clothes we have packed.
Even when he was managing to stay dry all day he wasn't pooing at nursery.
As you can imagine it makes it very difficult going out in everyday life. I simply cannot manage him in public toilets, even if I take his toilet seat with us we can't tie up a loo for 30 mins at a time (that's without no poo happening) I also have the 10 month old in a pram - all three of us can't sit there while I clean up his dirty bottom then as he stares at the ceiling for half an hour before I admit defeat - only for him to poo in his pants in the middle of Next 10 minutes later........

It's getting very isolating :(

Sparklyboots

Thanks so much, it's so difficult trying to do the right thing isn't it? I think you are putting into words what my gut is telling me, I need to do. Unfortunately I can be as stubborn as he is and we are butting our heads together on this. A tactical retreat may be in order!

Isn't regression common when a baby comes? It's like they have to reassert themselves as your baby or something. My son regressed on feeding when I had my little girl, it was really tough. It will pass, OP, it will. Maybe try an accept that he is basically like a baby on this and start from there, don't bother trying to make him go as he is not going and you may as well spend as little energy on dealing with this as possible. Pull ups on, change him briskly when he needs it, nothing more said, press reset on the whole process. It will pass and while you and him are in deadlock the kindest path for you is the path of least resistance

Oh cross post!

Is the 5 bowel movements a day normal for him? That seems pretty frequent, maybe he is not emptying him bowel properly or something? I know everyone is different and my son has always been every couple of days at the very max so even though hes not quite training yet I can usually grab him or he asks before he poos and he does it on the toilet. I honestly wouldn't have the energy to be doing that 5 times a day though. I think I'd stick nappies on and try again in a couple months.
Sorry if this is to gross for public forum but I'm a nurse and we forget what's appropriate for day to day chat but is he constipated and just passing small hard stool the whole time or is it quite soft? Just wondering if the reason he is scared is because its hurting him?

I swear I still have flashbacks-trauma regarding potty training DD. It was a nightmare

Go back to pull ups. Now. Your sanity will thank you and you can try again when he’s a bit older.

Jent13c
The nursery said the same the other day - they were amazed he had any left it him! Apparently the size was remarked on - the word "massive" was used. They are all soft and sizeable. I think he is just letting thing creep out slowly if you see what I mean ...sigh....

I would go back to nappies and try again in a few months - he is obviously not ready. It must be extremely stressful for the whole family. Just forget about it for a while, is my opinion, and I speak from experience.

Sparklyboots

Yes I thought about the baby coming along too. We left it while I was heavily pregnant as I just couldn't manage it (difficult pregnancy with complications).

I tried to make it seem like a "big boy" thing but he has no interest in that. He sometimes climbs in my lap and wants to pretend he is a baby but when I say "shall we put you back in nappies?" he says NO!

Ds showed no interest or aptitude until 4.5 yrs, when he cracked it all by himself within a week. Dd was much earlier- self trained by 2.5 although still needed a nappy to poo in. Why pressurise yourself and ds? Boys often take longer ime.

Honestly - I would just go back to nappies and try again in a couple of months. Once they are ready it just happens so much easier. Took us a few attempts but finally got it in a few days this time at 3y1m. Good luck - most important thing IMO is to not make it a big deal.

Sounds so similar to my situation apart from the age, ds is nearly six (he has autism & learning difficulties, he's developmentally delayed by a few years in a lot of areas) have tried TT many times over the years but have stuck to it this time.

Took day time nappies off 5th April first day of Easter holidays. Not had one on since (still wears one for bed) he's done a pooh in his pants twice today already.. he will have a week of barely any accidents at all then the week after he has wet pants several times a day, he didn't pooh his pants what so ever for 4 weeks but he's back to that now too. He doesn't really initiate he needs it but then he does have autism so communication isn't top of his priority anyway! So I take him every 1-2 hours, sometimes he will say wee or pooh but that's quite a rare thing, every time I take him he produces something on the toilet.

I'm really unsure what's going on but I'm sticking it out, yesterday we went to the park and he didn't have a wee for 3 hours while we were out and kept his pants dry / clean all day. We went on holiday recently and we had a brilliant week with toilet training he actually initiated more times in that week than the rest of the time put together. So I know he is capable.

If it takes ten years to be clean and dry so be it but he's not going back in a nappy.

If I were in your situation I would be toying with the idea of going back to a nappy since your son is still quite young.. but then I'd be annoyed because I'd been doing it months and would feel like such a backward step, so it's a hard one to call!

I know how frustrating it is though

I would gently suggest no actual progress has actually been made though, so there’s no ‘going backwards’ as such?

I would go back to nappies and have a break - it doesn't matter.

I used cloth nappies and mine both trained late so I personally wouldn't change to them now....

Having been through this with 3 boys and 1 girl, I would suggest you go back to nappies and wait. He has to be interested and want to do it. You cant make a child poo or pee. As soon as my boys realised they were in charge, they got all stubborn about not complying for a bit, and then if I backed off and let them have a breather, they came back to it iyswim. Then when they decided, we were sorted for daytimes in about a week. One thing I would suggest though is that DH takes him into the loo for a bit to watch Daddy do a ‘great big stand up wee wee’. Something about weeing standing up is very appealing to small boys, tell DH he could suggest it to ds very casually that he might like to try too and maybe surprise Mummy with his ‘great big stand up wee wee’ 🤣

SeaToSki
He will only do a wee standing up! That is except when he decides he wants nothing to do with the process and refuses to even hold it or point it in the right direction. Or he will decide he has finished half way through, let go and pee all over the floor and down his leg!