MIL always insists on "ladies first"

[user1199]

It's rare that all 7 grandchildren are round for lunch at the same time but this week they were. MIL serves all the girls (mums included) before moving on to boys followed by the dads. She always says "ladies first" I find this view so dated. This then continues for pudding then on to other things such as order in which children get a turn on the slide. I just roll my eyes and ignore it. I want my little boy to have patience and wait his turn but just because he can and not because he's a boy. I am typically quite old fashioned in my thinking of boys clothes and girls clothes and what's boys toys and girls toys but I still find this a bit much. I won't be saying anything to MIL but was just curious what other people thought as none of the other family members seem to bat an eyelid.
Sickly or sweet?
Chivalry or sexism?

But I do agree if you want to buy your son a blue ball that’s completely fine. Just because others don’t agree doesn’t mean it’s wrong. I got brought up with dolls, prams and a pink room while brother had football etc (80’s children) and there’s nothing wrong with us... to an extent 😂

Poor OP. I must be sexist and old fashioned too as I agree that most people would buy pink or blue according to gender in cases where they are the only two colours available. Apart from the perfect MNers with halos above their every decision.

Please, sort your own sexism out before complaining about MILs.

Of course your son won't choose to buy a pink pram, but only because I expect you've never encouraged him to play with one.
And if I could help it, I never once chose a pink toy, over a blue toy for my DDS. They'd have got the blue one, because I don't want them growing up thinking Pink is for girls, Blue is for boys.

I don't think you are sexist. I had a friend who would take her son to watch the daughters horse riding lesson but despite his pleas wouldn't let him join in as it's not for boys.
I should think your views are probably more common than people like to admit.
So your son plays with a pushchair at playgroup.
Now if you said at playgroup you can't play with that it's for girls I would disagree but the fact that you haven't rushed out to buy him one seems pretty normal to me.
The pink and blue thing is pretty engrained in us and is done second nature without thinking I see no harm in it. The little boys growing up with everything pink because the parents think they are doing the right thing are the unfortunate ones.
How old is DS?

@LizzieSiddal that makes you just as bad, by reinforcing the idea that ‘girl stuff’ is inferior to ‘boy stuff’, so your daughters must have the ‘boy’ colour because it’s aspirational to be like a boy.

The fact is when there is a pink and a blue ball, we are all socially conditioned to think one is for boys and one for girls. It’s shit, but it’s certainly not the biggest toy issue that girls face. The OP hasn’t said her son isn’t allowed ‘girl’s toys’ (he’s got a Hoover, is that a ‘girl thing’?), just that if there’s a clear blue/pink option she would pick a blue one up.

And I say this as someone with a 3 year old son sleeping under a bright pink paw patrol duvet because his favourite pup is Everest.

Why do so many of you on here feel so smug about not buying pink clothes for girls?? I don’t get it.

I liked the fact that my DD looked so sweet in little pink dresses, and loved dressing my boys in little outfits with dinosaurs on etc...
I wanted to give my girl dolls and buggies, and my boys cars and trains etc... I didn’t over think it, and why should ? It’s no one else’s business.

I don’t care what you give your children, as long as they are happy, and you shouldn’t care what I give mine.

I don’t care what you give your children, as long as they are happy
But if a little girl is asked what she wants for Christmas and says a car but gets a doll because cars are for boys , then she isn't happy, same vide versa. Or if she isn't even aware she's allowed to want a car, and same vide versa, she's potentially not as happy as she can be.

Little boy at nursery pushing a kids shopping trolley to school because he wasn't allowed a pushchair,a perfect example.

Most kids with parwnts with attitudes like yours don't have the choice to decide. Choice is today DS wanted the mermaid doll and a sword (he got neither cos I'm tight), he has all the PJ Masks outfits and spends most time being Owlette or Romeo.

@LizzieSiddal that makes you just as bad, by reinforcing the idea that ‘girl stuff’ is inferior to ‘boy stuff’, so your daughters must have the ‘boy’ colour because it’s aspirational to be like a boy.

Are you serious?
Would you tell a girl not to “aspire” to be an engineer, just stick to being a nurse?
Or tell a girl she can’t even play football, just stick to netball or it will look like netball isn’t as good?

If we all thought like you women would still be chained to the kitchen sink or be earning half the wages of men.

I liked the fact that my DD looked so sweet in little pink dresses, and loved dressing my boys in little outfits with dinosaurs on etc...

Oh. my. Lord.

Try thinking outside the box once in a while. Sticking to such terrible gender, stereotypes isn’t good for anyone.

To some extent i agree with you Cherry. My DC are in their mid/ late 20s now. It sounds to me as if the whole pink for girly girls thing is much worse now than it was whenDd and DS1 were tiny. I liked to think I wasn't moulding them gender wise eg no difference in clothes, both had a little pram, DD had short hair etc. Looking back I was probably a bit smug and snobbish and maybe my choices were more about my vanities. DD would now say that she would have loved pink, sparkly shoes and long hair and that she thought I was 'mean'for 'making' her dress like a boy!! I probably need to examine my motivation.its an interesting topic.

I'm not purposely trying to go with the gender neutral trend... Personally I'd be more concerned about the children being brought up allowed to choose what sex/gender they would like to be
You know it isn't either / or right? DS is dressed in jeans or trousers, but if he wants the pink Shimmer and Shine too he can. He currently has long hair, andlikes Spiderman and Owlette the best, and he wears both costumes. He can do all that whilst knowing he's a boy.

How to tell if something is a girl's or boy's toy:

Looking back I was probably a bit smug and snobbish and maybe my choices were more about my vanities. DD would now say that she would have loved pink, sparkly shoes and long hair and that she thought I was 'mean'for 'making' her dress like a boy!!

Well surely they can have both.

You are right LizzieSiddal

This sexist nonsense does my head in. Gendered stuff conditions children into restricted gender roles. Fact. People react differently to children and we are all being conditioned by what they wear. Clothes speak to us, indicate gender, status, character and ability etc. Anyone pretending they just accept the person the way they are has some work to do on recognising unconscious biases they have.

Bonus question on these very real pictures I took in a kids clothes shop.

Which picture shows an item located in boys section?

I'm guessing this is old fashioned in some communities, but to me it seems like a personal twist rather than an old fashioned tradition unless you know others that do the same. I would just think it was a quirk of hers, neither sickly or sweet or anything else. I imagine as nowhere else is probably going to act like that, that it will unlikely to really rub off.

I'm not purposely trying to go with the gender neutral trend... Personally I'd be more concerned about the children being brought up allowed to choose what sex/gender they would like to be

It’s not about choosing sex or gender, it’s about not being restricted to certain choices by gender.

Imo children only “choose” a gender when they are so restricted to gender roles they think if they don’t like pink and sparkles they must be a boy, and if they do they are a girl.

Both mine are very secure in knowing their sex. Part if that comes from knowing if they have short hair and like trucks they are still a girl, and they can like both lego and dolls without worrying if it’s “for girls” or vice versa.

My short haired girl constantly has to answer to sexist arseholes telling her she’s a boy. She’s fucking 14, why would you insist she is a boy when she tells you herself she’s a girl.

@LizzieSiddal no you’ve missed my point. My kids choose what they want, boys have both had pushchairs, dolls, kitchens etc etc. Daughter is the youngest so will probably end up playing with the monster machines and dinosaurs that the boys have out all the time.

My point is that being a girl, or being ‘girly’, or liking pink, isn’t something to be ashamed of. By teaching girls to aspire to be like boys (boys, not engineers!) you are reinforcing the idea that the ‘boy’ option is the better one. A girl can be bought the pink ball and be an engineer. Obviously if your child prefers blue buy the blue option, but before children can voice a preference the vast majority of people choose the gendered option, and by intentionally choosing opposite you are reinforcing the view that ‘girly’ stuff is second best.

Think about why, in many people's minds, it’s absolutely fine for a girl to play football but if a boy wants to do ballet there’s raised eyebrows. Because it’s fine to want to be ‘like a boy’, but not for a boy to want to be ‘like a girl’.

You might not agree with me but please don’t say if everyone thought like me women would still be chained the sink. I completely believe in gender equality, but that’s as much about getting society to value ‘girl stuff’ as it is about encouraging women into ‘boy stuff’. Why are nursery staff (qualified, mostly female staff) paid so much less than a building site labourer (unqualified, mostly men)? Because society doesn’t value ‘girl stuff’, and in my view making your daughter choose the boy version reinforces that boy stuff is more valuable than the girl equivalent.

I do also believe that we should be encouraging girls into science, engineering etc by the way. But we should also be encouraging boys into nursing and care roles

You’ve misread my first post. I didn’t say I’d make my Dd choose a blue ball. I said I would choose it for my DDs. So if they weren’t there, I would never choose the pink version of something.
A) because it reinforces “girls” toys stereotype.
B) I absolutely hate pink.

So of course my Dds could choose pink if they wanted it, sometimes they did sometimes they didn’t.

I just bought a lovely dinosaur dress from M&S for DD, giant lizards don’t scream boy or girl to me.

For me, I am going for gender neutral because I grew up being called a “tom boy” and even as a child I found that label annoying. All our toys are just toys, they play with them all equally. I have a year between mine so they play the same things, one day it’s dress up (they’ve got a batman outfit each and both are the traditional one, not the “girl” version) one day it’s imaginext, one days it’s babies and pushchairs (they have one of those each too). They’ve got the same colour scooters with their names on. They often share clothes.

It’s not about making everything pink so that boys see it’s ok to wear it. Or making everything blue to empower girls. That’s a very simplistic way of looking at gender neutral playing. Very few of our toys are even blue or pink, they are playdoh or duplo or fuzzy felts. The only balls we have are a yellow one and a Winnie the Pooh one.

I completely agree with Kungfupanda67 about finding the value in all things and allowing your child to make their own choices regardless of whether it’s pink or blue, nurse or engineer. The ballet point is a very good one. This goes past not buying pink thinkgs.

My little boy is under 2 and hasn't really been put in a position in a shop to choose his own toy or clothes yet. Mostly because I try to limit the amount of plastic purchased but also because he has a small holding right outside his door and doesn't actually have many toys. His favourite toy is a plant pot to collect stones and wood chip in.
He does naturally get excited about tractor things because he wants to drive a tractor not just like daddy but like mummy too. Just as he gets his kitchen utensils out when he wants to cook like mummy or daddy. Going back to my original point though his kitchen pan set does have blue handles, not a problem in my opinion.
When he gets to the age where he can actively choose his own toys yes I would get him a dolly and a pram if he asked for it.
I still openly admit I wouldn't be happy dressing him as a child in pink flowery dresses for day to day wear if he asked yet I'd happily let him play dress up in a princess dress let's say. some may see this as confusing or unfair but this is just my view.
There's a gender neutral child at playgroup and parents seem to squirm around what to say around their parents. I genuinely don't actually know what sex the child is and find it all a little uncomfortable. I wouldn't want my son being mistaken for a girl and others finding that awkward. Having said that said child seems very happy.
Slam me all you like but we are all just parenting our little ones the best way we know how.
My little boy is happy and loved to the core is shown affection constantly and is affectionate, loving, kind and gentle back. So far so good.

The issue I has when mine were little was the binary-ness.

The choice was pink or blue. I used to walk into next and despair at the sea of pink clothes.

I tended to buy blue not because I don’t value “girl”, or think boy is better, but because I disagree that girls should only be exposed to pink. And the only non-pink choice was blue.

Had green, purple, orange, yellow, red etc been available I would have chosen those happily.

@bluebluezoo I agree with the sea of pink, I hate when stuff that is perfectly unisex has to be transferred into lots of shades of pink. Baby walkers, balls for ball pits, the pop up tents and tunnels, fisher price cookie jar - they’re all multi coloured or pink. It restricts girls and for when the choice is multi coloured or pink I always go multi coloured. I wonder if boys learn colours more quickly that girls 🤔

I also hate with a passion that toy shops have pink floors to signal where the boys must stop because otherwise they might buy a ‘girls toy’ and their willies might fall off 🙄

Are we actually sure that there is not an innate gender bias in many of the young towards a particular type of toy? The recent research on young baboons is [interesting:www.discoverwildlife.com/news/when-is-animals-at-play-on-tv/]
Whilst it would obviously be wrong to deny a toy car to a girl or a doll to boy who who wants one should we not be careful about forcing gender neutral attitudes on them lest they be equally disappointed at being denied traditional gender appropriate toys and go to find a gun shaped stick or a baby shaped log?
I shall now sit back and wait to be flamed by those more politically correct than I am whilst my DH bathes the children.