No routine, at all. How did we end up in this mess?

[Mybobowler]

My beautiful, spirited baby girl is 6 months old and our days are chaos. Apart from bedtime, we have zero routine. Nothing she does follows any predictable pattern - nights, morning wake-up time, feeding and nap length all vary hugely from one day to the next. The only way she'll sleep in the day is in the pram or if I feed her, and neither are particularly reliable. I'm at my wits end. I can't make plans for my days, and having any time to myself feels like an increasingly impossible dream. I know some people hate routines for babies, but I am not one of those people. I laugh at how naive I was when I was pregnant - I read the books, Gina Ford, Baby Whisperer etc. How hard could it be, right? Please - PLEASE - where do I start now, at this age? I have no idea what to tackle first and I'm desperate. I don't need to be able to set my clock by her, but having some vague rhythm to our days so I could at least eat lunch or meet up with people would be a considerable improvement.

At around 6 months I started the 2,3,4 routine. Although it does depend a bit on nap lengths.

So first nap 2 hours after they wake up on a morning, then second nap 3 hours after that and then bed time 4 hours after that. Your baby might need 3 naps still though so you could add a 30 min snooze in the late afternoon to get her through to bedtime. Obviously you don’t have to stick rigidly to the timings. But mine would mostly wake up and bottle 6/7ish. Breakfast around 8, nap around 9-10.30. Bottle 11ish, lunch 12ish, nap 1.30-3. Bottle 3ish, dinner 5ish and bed and bottle around 7. Obviously took a while to work up to 3 meals a day, and some days it all went to hell, but I knew roughly I was free 10.30-1.30 and then after 3pm. I really persevered with the self settling for naps in the cot, so although I was usually at home for nap times, I loved the peace and me time and the predictability of it. My kids wouldn’t nap as well on the go, but some days of course they had to - especially DC2

If your baby won’t take naps longer than an hour, then I’d probably do a nap every 2 hours approximately.

I did find it hard when they were weaning to fit in the meals and the milk. It felt like they were constantly needing feeding. We still have similar mealtimes though with both children who are now 4 and nearly 2,

I'd start by trying to get a regular wake up time. obviously doesn't work if sometimes waking at 5 but if you can regularly wake at 7 for e.g. then hopefully first nap and so on will be a bit regular.

I think I’d start with same wake up time daily if past, say, 7am, and the same meal and snack times and see if that sorts the rest out.

What I would do is work out how long your baby can stay awake for before getting tired. At 6 months it’s probably about 2 hours. So baby wakes up whenever, then aim for a nap roughly 2 hours after that. My first woke early so she’d have her first nap at home while I had time to myself. Then when your Baby wakes from nap check the clock and aim for the next nap in 2 hours time iyswim. Mine both had 3 naps at that age.
You can of course leave the house and have naps on the go by just letting them sleep in sling / pram!
So if I was you, I’d feed to sleep for first nap, go out when she’s up meet friends for lunch etc then give her a nap in the pram/sling while you’re out, then head home for some time before 3rd nap (just feed to sleep if that’s what works).

But don’t worry! You will find something that works for you!

We fell into a routine by waking them when we did and walking the dog/putting them in the buggy at roughly the same time each day. The dog walks and nap times fell into sync. If they get up 7-8am, I would simply incorporate a walk into your day at about 10, then another mid afternoon.

Such walks also helps cut the day into chunks, which I found easier than all the hours being indistinguishable and blurring into one long day.

I would start with getting yourself a routine where you pop her in the pram 2 hours after she wakes and go for a nice walk, then see how she goes, if she still is not having a nap, push it back by 15 mins, you will then find around how long she stays awake for. Then do the same for the next nap.

Once you find the best times for her naps, then you can start trying to get her to sleep in her cot as well, just so she doesn't have to be in her pram to nap.

Once you establish when her best napping time is, you can then fit in her feeds/snacks around then.

Then you know when your free time is, when feeds are and playtime fits around that, don't worry you will crack it 💐💐

Thank you all - some great advice here. I've been aiming for naps every two hours, but she'll often fight them. Will try tweaking it a bit and see how we go. The other bad habit she's developed is having little yen minute micro-naps while I feed her, then I put her down (fast asleep) and boom, she's wide awake again and refuses to re-settle. She's not upset when this happens, she's happy and alert so I cant get her back to sleep. Obviously I could just keep unlatching her when she dozes off, but given that I'm trying to feed her to sleep half the time, it seems a little counterintuitive! Also, I keep whipping myself with the fact that breastfeeding to sleep seems to be an absolute no-no according to all the advice - I know I need to try and break that habit, but it's the only thing that works! I had such good intentions when she was a newborn, I was such a bloody know-it-all - now look at me!

Ah stop whipping yourself about feeding to sleep! I know babies who have slept when fed to sleep. However my dd2 not a great sleeper so I know how you feel - I’m worried that’s where I’ve gone wrong! I’m trying to feed till drowsy then rock and then put down almost fast asleep. Also I resettle if she wakes up after less then an hour’s nap - sometimes takes 15 mins of rocking in the dark with white noise on but sometimes just doesn’t work. It’s having some success so maybe worth a go.

I don't know why you are freaking out so much, both my two didn't really have a huge routine until they started nursery at 9 months.

Until then, our days went like this :

6am, baby wakes.

Food, play etc. Go outside, supermarket, whatever.
Home by around 11. Try and persuade baby to nap - if they don't go out in pram or in the car. Pray they sleep.

Bedtime at 6pm.

At that age they may need two naps, one around 11 and one around 3pm - depends on baby.

We're only 7 months in and feeding has established its own pattern so I always know when to get a bottle ready! He wakes up about the same time every day and usually has a morning nap 2-3 hours later. Afternoon naps vary but the pushchair lies flat so his naps don't ever get in the way of anything. He has very clear signs in rubbing eyes and tugging his ear then it's straight in the pushchair for nap time!

Don't know if this helps and it's not something I've done as such but I have figured about an hour and a half /two hours after a bottle dd will sleep. I never know how long for, depends on a few things, are we home, are we out, is she warm all seems to affect it. Then she will wake play feed play and repeat. Although it's not a routine I have put into play as such it helps to have a rough idea of when she will sleep. Always goes to be about 9.30 at night and wakes about 7ish.

Try the huckleberry app it helped me keep track of awake and sleep times I now don't need it as I can read his sleepy cues. But we don't always have a routine we do different things on different days and he is changing every day so we adapt. Go wuth the flow and enjoy your baby xx

With DS I used a baby tracking app for a week or so, noted his pattern (it wasn't obvious but there were consistencies I hadn't seen), then capitalised on it, so I'm not fighting him to sleep when I went him to, he's 7 months gets up between 6-7 Naps around 9, 12/1ish and around half four, bath at seven also between half seven and eight. I didn't choose this he did

*asleep between half seven and eight

I salute you for trying to get this sorted. My solution has been to go back to work and let nursery deal with it.

Honestly, the best thing to do is get yourself into a routine and then get your baby to work around you. I never bothered with a strict routine with either of mine and I went back to work when eldest was 7 months old so there wasn't much point really. When my youngest was about 4 months old, my eldest went to the childminder every morning. So I HAD to have everyone up and out ready for 9am. Having that schedule helped me get my youngest into a bit of a routine.

With your baby being six months, I'd really be pushing solids and using mixed meal times as a start for a routine perhaps. Especially with feeding.

I never really bothered too much with a sleep schedule. I just used to let my youngest sleep in the pram around me going out. If I stayed at home in the morning, I'd put him up in the cot for a nap.

My first son never napped in a cot, whatever I tried. I walked him in the pram or drove around aimlessly (tied naps in with going out, took a book......)

I agree start by waking at the same time. A good routine for me was to go and get a cuppa then stay upstairs while I got ready, before venturing down and being up for the day. Plan around meal times. I found that the first couple of months of weaning I was prepping food, feeding, cleaning up for mist of the day!

Set a routine, for example Monday's we went swimming, tired and Thurs baby groups around 10am. Other days were stay at home, playing , getting housework done etc.

I’ve been struggling too but (while I wouldn’t beat yourself up) breaking the feed to sleep link has coincided with longer naps (every nap was 30-40mins) so might help.

With my first was super determined to have a routine and I made myself miserable with it. In the end post six months he found a rhythm and it started meaning Day was Before that I booked stuff and hoped for best. I spent hundreds on sleep consultants and he napped in his cot when he was ready. I did do a lot of pram walks.

Fast forward to no 2 and same thing has happened. Except due to nursery run get up time is fixed.

For social it’s worth seeing if your local NCT has pram walks so you can combine walking with chatting.

Check out the Huckleberry sleep app! It calculates the approximate nap gap for your baby based on age and number of naps per day. It calls it the 'sweet spot' for when your LO will be tired but not overtired. Ive found it works pretty well!

My little girl also prefers to nap in the pram too and will nap longer there than in her cot so I also tend to go a walk for the first nap as then I know at least one nap will be decent. And it's nice to have the routine of going for a walk every morning!

Also to say you’re not alone. I’m not sure I believe in these “perfect routine” babies. A friend of mine had, on the surface, one. He already self settled at five months, she put him in pushchair in hall of our house and he just popped off to sleep then I discovered that while he was “sleeping” 7-7 but he was awake 3-4 times in the time and again it sorted itself out when he was ready no matter how good her routine and sleep hygiene has been.

I’m barely capable of following this advice but it will pass and suddenly she’ll have picked your routine for you and it’ll feel great!

You’re doing much better than you think!!!

I initially hated the idea of a strict ‘routine’ but when my LO was about 5 months (now 9 months) I was feeling a bit like you and started the Little Ones sleep routine. I don’t follow it super strictly but I like that it gives some structure to the day and I actually feel I am more flexible and able to get out and about easier, as I know when she is due to nap (and how to shift it if needed to fit my plans!) rather than just winging it day by day.

We got our son into a routine at 2 months as he clearly needed it - he just wasn't napping during the day, screamed in the carseat, naps in the pram were hit and miss and he just fought naps all day long and got really miserable. As soon as we started the Little Ones programme he changed! We had to teach him how to nap in his crib though so it does take a while. 6 months not in a routine isn't a 'mess' - lots of my 10 month old baby friends still aren't in a proper routine as it seems like they just don't need them! And I'm jealous of people who didn't need to put their baby in a routine from 8 weeks old as it made me less flexible (ie I didn't go out for lunch with my friend anymore cos baby was napping!). Got a lot better when his naps went from 4x 45 mins to 1x45 mins and 1x2 hours! :)

Thanks everyone! So, from the advice I've had here I need to stop giving myself a hard time, get the Huckleberry app and maybe invest in the Little Ones programme (which I've been eyeing up for a while!). It makes total sense to try to stick to the same wake-up time in the morning, and I'll have a go at starting there! Problem is that she'll start her day anywhere between 5 - 7.30, and I have no idea how to get a handle on that either! And now, the cherry on my sleepless cake, the last three nights she's been waking every two hours and won't settle unless fed. Help! I'm just going to repeat "this too shall pass, it's just a phase" to myself, over and over. And over.

Decide on your start time for the day (say 7am) and treat anything before then as 'night' - I would bring in to bed, feed, cuddle etc but no lights on, playing or going downstairs.
I also always fed on waking, not at nap time, so they didn't fall asleep while feeding.
So for example, awake at 7am, feed, play, nap at 8.30am
awake at 9.30am, feed, play, nap at 11.30am
awake at 1, feed, play, nap at 3
awake at 4, feed, play, start bedtime routine about 6.30
Bed at 7.

Timings are approximate, but the pattern was the same every day.

With Abby. Even if it meant sitting in nursery for hours the babies haven’t started their days until 6:30/7 hard to know as firsts sleep was terrible but so far gave escaped habituated 5am waking with him and he’s 3.5! I’ve personally found little ones doesn’t work as he’s tremendously hungry. EASY and Gina Ford fail he did same reason. It’s more EAEAESB-H (bliddy hell) in our house!

Good luck.