No routine, at all. How did we end up in this mess?

[Mybobowler]

My beautiful, spirited baby girl is 6 months old and our days are chaos. Apart from bedtime, we have zero routine. Nothing she does follows any predictable pattern - nights, morning wake-up time, feeding and nap length all vary hugely from one day to the next. The only way she'll sleep in the day is in the pram or if I feed her, and neither are particularly reliable. I'm at my wits end. I can't make plans for my days, and having any time to myself feels like an increasingly impossible dream. I know some people hate routines for babies, but I am not one of those people. I laugh at how naive I was when I was pregnant - I read the books, Gina Ford, Baby Whisperer etc. How hard could it be, right? Please - PLEASE - where do I start now, at this age? I have no idea what to tackle first and I'm desperate. I don't need to be able to set my clock by her, but having some vague rhythm to our days so I could at least eat lunch or meet up with people would be a considerable improvement.

I think some babies just don't do routine and the books saying that every baby does cause unnecessary parental stress and self-judgement. I spent ages worrying that feeding to sleep was at the root of DS’ rubbish sleep but it was years after weaning before he started sleeping better. I'd go with a consistent bedtime and the rest of the time try to go with the flow. I know some people can feel trapped by a strict routine as much as you feel trapped by lack of one so I'm not sure that it would help - I think it's easier to just expect naps to happen whenever and just work around them.

*ifsomeonehadtoldme thanks, that made me laugh - sounds familiar! I've just fed her to sleep - I can't handle another hike with the pram after a sleepless night.

I think my girl is one of those babies who just doesn't do routine, probably my best tactic is just to go with the flow. It's not like she's unhappy, I'm just constantly trying to stay one step ahead and I'm knackered! I'll take a deep breath and keep muddling through!

Aim to please. After my first was born (well a year old) I almost decked the childless friend who told me routine is so important for children I don’t understand anyone who doesn’t establish one. Almost invited her to come try out persuading him into any routine!

My brain has gone bananas. That should Aim to be happy with what you can do! God more coffee is needed!

Hi OP,

I would seriously get on top of feeding and rocking to sleep. I know babies fall asleep while they're feeding (whether bottle or breast) but they need to self-soothe. So do your best to make sure your baby is awake when she's put in the cot. She will learn to fall asleep from being awake. Therefore when she wakes ten minutes after you put her down she will be able to settle herself again.

At bedtime don't rock her to sleep either. I used to hate people telling me about rods and backs, but they were right. The older your baby gets the harder it will be to get her to sleep in the evening. I found this out the hard way. By the time my DD1 was two she was taking two hours to get off to sleep (with me in attendance rocking her) and woke at least five times a night.

I didn't do that with the subsequent three DC.

I think my girl is one of those babies who just doesn't do routine, probably my best tactic is just to go with the flow. It's not like she's unhappy, I'm just constantly trying to stay one step ahead and I'm knackered! I'll take a deep breath and keep muddling through

Please don't go with the flow. It'll get worse and worse.

Not to play devils advocate but the whole not feeding to sleep is that a new thing? When I said it to my mum she said she'd done that with all of us and didn't understand why it's no longer advised.... when did the advice change?

Have you started weaning yet? (Sorry if you mentioned I couldn't see it!)
This gives you a perfect opportunity to start creating a routine. Don't worry about breast feeding to sleep for now, as she starts to eat more over the next few months milk intake will drop. Then you can work on this if you want to.

If weaning (or about to) base the routine on three meals a day to begin with. I'd start by giving breakfast everyday, add lunch a week/two later then dinner (there are a thousand ways to wean, just a suggestion!). Aim for:
Wake up (Between 6 and 7, later and you're onto a winner!)
Breakfast for you both (Around 7.30/8.30)
First nap (9/9.30)
Lunch (12 ish)
Second nap (12.45)
Third nap if needed (4.15 for half hour)
Dinner (5pm)
Bath time (6pm)
Bedtime (7pm)

Then you just need to add in feeds when suits you and you can plan to go out during nap times or in-between.

You can do what @Jemima232 is suggesting quite gently (no judgement on whether suggestion was gentle or not!). With No1 we started by breaking feed to sleep so he was then rocked and cuddled to sleep, then cuddled, then back stroked. At 3.5 he occasionally wants his hand held or us to sit with him. I’m ok with that as he won’t want it forever and indeed won’t need us.

With No2, we’re currently cuddling upright from much younger with idea it means anyone can settle him. Obviously issue of feed to sleep is that only I could get him off. I am not careful on laying him in cot so he sort of wakes looks around and then goes to sleep. Night sleep is good, day sleep is variable and only now am I getting the odd cot nap. All guaranteed long naps are in the carrier.

What I would say is each of those changes was met with protest so it really depends what you can take. A friend told me to time crying and it’s actually only eight minutes whilst I hold him the whole time at the moment. It just feels like it’s forever when it’s next to your right ear. Is also put earplugs in just to dampen the noise while he settles. I figure if I’m holding him and he cries, short of doing the feed to sleep I’m trying to avoid I’m doing my best and he knows he’s comforted. I hope it gradually reduces so we can try drowsy and in cot but I suspect we have some months ahead of us.

Ultimately you have to balance your need for structure against what you can cope with trying out. The two can be somewhat at odds and only you know the sweet spot - not Tracey Hogg or Gina Ford!

I do agree that breaking the feeding-to-sleep habit should be done gently.

I also believe that your problems will get worse and worse as your DD gets older if you don't break this habit.

I ended up doing controlled crying with a toddler as I was going out of my mind from lack of sleep.

Nip it in the bud while your DD is only six months old.

I would always say nudge rather than shove. DS got better at sleeping on his own when he was ready. We definitely nudged him towards independent sleeping but pushing too fast was always counterproductive and set things back. If you never put them down awake you don't know if they'd be fine. But if they're clearly not happy then insisting can make them more stressed and make them harder to settle - plus making your life more difficult in the interim.

I didn't do that with the subsequent three DC.
Yes - fed DC1 to sleep, didn't repeat that with subsequent 4!

Thanks everyone. Out of desperation, I've just thrown some money at the Little Ones sleep programme. Ironically, I'm too knackered to read it, but I'm on the case. I really, really hate that we've ended up where we have with feeding to sleep. She's a bottle refuser, and I'm literally the only person who can settle her. I love her with all my heart and soul but my mental health is definitely suffering with both the exhaustion and the weight of it all. I just feel like a bit of failure, really.

@Mybobowler

You're not a failure at all. If you are, then so are almost all of us.

You're sleep-deprived and overwhelmed. We all plan that nothing in our lives will change when we have babies and we think (in our innocence) that it'll be a walk in the park.

I'm a midwife FFS and I was shocked by the exhaustion, disruption and chaos one small baby brought to my life.

I breastfed all of mine (for years) and I have a feeling that you're worrying about being the only one who can settle her ATM.

Yes, you are. But that will change when you start to teach your baby to self-soothe.

I promise you that it gets better.

@Jemima232 - thank you, made me cry. Honestly, I have days where I wish I'd never started breastfeeding - I haven't had more than four hours to myself since she was born, the burden of feeding and sleeping falls entirely on me, and even though we've started weaning, it feels like there's no end in sight. I feel terrible for admitting that, but it's true. I do feel completely and utterly overwhelmed, and I know I've been setting up bad habits, but when you're this tired, you'll do anything to get through the day. Guess I need to steel myself. If you - or any other PPs - have good advice or resources on how to go about breaking feed to sleep, please let me know!

My breastfed baby is nearly 1 and here's our current routine.

6-7:30am wake & morning routine (which involves breakfast and getting ready - stuff getting done in same order each day. Sometimes he decides to start the day at half 4.)
2 hours after waking morning nap
Play / activity
Midday dinner
Play / activity
Afternoon nap (time varies)
4pm tea
4:30-6pm play at home (or park if weather nice)
6pm (time varies depending on if it’s bath night) bedtime routine
Asleep in cot by 7pm

This routine evolved gradually. At first we started with just a bedtime routine at 8 weeks then the rest just kind of fell into place over time. It works for us as a family and our baby is happy - that's all that matters.

Unless he happens to be in his buggy or car seat, I always breastfeed him to sleep. Many people told me it was wrong and that he'd never be able to sleep without me etc etc but I ignored all of this and listened to my instinct. 7-8 months onwards he can sleep just fine without me. He sometimes sleeps through the night and, if he wakes up mid-nap, he can self-settle. Listen to your gut and if you want to continue feeding to sleep then go for it. It's great for bonding.

Good luck op

I always think, when I'm taking ante-natal classes that we don't spend enough time talking about this. I always include lots of post-natal stuff but I might as well save my breath. The whole class glazes over.

But mention waters breaking, contractions or pethidine and the class sit up and take notes again.

Anyway - this is the book you need. It saved me and I highly recommend it.

www.amazon.co.uk/s?ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_14&crid=20S1U1RDDROAZ&sprefix=richard+ferber%2Caps%2C366&k=richard+ferber+solve+your+childs+sleep+problems&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Sorry op, just read your subsequent posts and it doesn't sound like you're enjoying feeding to sleep. Didn't mean to say the wrong thing - was just trying to get across the message of do what you want to do. Sorry if what I said came across wrong.

@Mybobowler feeding to sleep is not failure. It’s doing the best you can for your baby. If it is then I’ve failed big time as I’ve done it up until a week ago - so for 23 weeks. I’ve only stopped because I was struggling with being only one to settle him.

You should have seen the melt downs I’ve had and I’ve already been through this once.

It’s really overwhelming being the person responsible for this tiny life; you’re allowed to feel the enormity, the exhaustion and you’re definitely allowed not to treasure every second!

I’m crap at following this advice but give yourself both credit and a break. If the baby is happy and thriving you’re doing a great job no matter how you’ve got there. The important thing is to find a way to be content yourself because you matter too. Maybe talk to your significant other about how you feel, they might not realise..

I grumble about DH but he has been immense at helping with settling, getting No 2 to grumpily accept the bottle and when the time was right with No 1, night weaning. His distinct advantage being he doesn’t smell of milk!

@jemima232 - I totally agree. I was warned about the cracked nipples and mastitis, but nobody told me about this reality of breastfeeding. I can't say whether it would have changed my decision to breastfeed, but I certainly would have done things very differently. But anyway, that's a whole other thread. Thank you for the book recommendation, I'll order it now!

@firsttimemama - don't apologise, it's so good to hear that taking a less rigid approach can still work well, gives me a lot of heart! I think the thing that's caught me by surprise is how short the first few months are - one minute your newborn baby is sleeping constantly, so falling asleep breastfeeding is completely inevitable, and the next minute you've got a furious six month old, beside herself because you tried to put her down to sleep without feeding her (which is literally what is happening in my house right now).

@bibblebrain - thank you glad to hear you've had success, well done! My poor DP has just tried to settle DD (she was fed to sleep, as usual, at 7pm but has woken twice since screaming) but she was having none of it. Frustrated to say that I'm feeding her, again. Ridiculous. We do need to be more strategic and consistent - like I said before, I'm so exhausted that I dont have much resilience or tenacity at the moment. I'm going to get my head around what we need to do and then we're going to go for it I think. Can I ask how long it took your DC to get used to the change?

@Mybobowler depends what you call used to it. He cries for 8-10 minutes whatever we do apart from sucking. Won’t take a dummy either. There has been a couple of times it’s been five minutes of moaning tired cries as opposed to noisy cries.

It was probably up to half an hour the first week while we were also trying to persuade him to have a bottle so hard to know what displeased him most.

If it helps, I feed him til his sucks are no
Longer productive then put sleeping bag one hi hi wakes him, we hold him either upright on our shoulder or sideways but further out than breastfeeding position. Depends what seems to upset him most. I sing nursery rhymes, I caught DH playing Linkin Park to him the other day! Then check watch when crying starts if it gets past ten minutes I feed him again but stop if he’s not doing productive sucks anymore then start again. Whole time he’s cuddled and reassured. Crying changes in tone to that meant cry they get when they’re tired but can’t sleep and at ten minutes he sighs and relaxes. Then he goes not very carefully in the cot so he wakes up sometimes he looks round and goes back to sleep sometimes I have to start again.

I get why he’s angry, it’s definitely not what he wants. It helped to recognise the cry was very angry sounding rather than his hungry or inconsolable cries. I listened carefully to pushchair tantrum and car seat tantrum and realised “I’m not getting a face full of boob while I fall asleep” cry sounded the same so I felt happy he wasn’t distressed per se.

It works for us don’t know it would fit everyone or indeed anyone else. When you read little ones there is a settling guide and instructions for how to teach a baby that’s been fed to sleep to self settle.

Hi OP,
The Ferber book above is a version of controlled crying I believe. It’s not something I would ever do with my children. There are gentler methods our there if you’re interested. My 7 month old is improving using The No Cry Sleep Solution. It has methods to use on fed to sleep babies. I used methods from this with my elder daughter too who is a fantastic sleeper and who goes to sleep herself and is happy chatting and singing to herself if she wakes in the night at 2 and a half!

Please don’t beat yourself up about the feeding to sleep. It’s a perfectly natural way for babies to fall a sleep and I totally get what you mean about going suddenly from a newborn to a 6 month old. And well done on the breastfeeding - I know how you feel about the relentlessness. But you can break the feed to sleep cycle (I would suggest doing this gently!) and then you’ll be able to feed and give to DH to settle.

Hang in there. Becoming a mum is amazing but overwhelming at times. You are doing a brilliant job.

@BarberBabyBubbles - thank you - I do want to try to be gentle about it, not least because we've tried controlled crying and I know it doesn't work, she just gets increasingly more upset (as do I!) and takes even longer to settle.

We had an absolutely appalling night last night - she was up every hour and inconsolable without being fed. I think I've hit new lows of sleep deprivation. I tried to take her off when she'd stopped properly feeding and put her back down half-awake, which had mixed success, but I've got to start somewhere right?! So Day One of Little Ones is off to a crap start - she woke up at 5.30, I left her in her bedroom until 6.30, fed her the "breakfast feed" at 6.45 but she conked out on me and has just woken up again. It's a schedule I can slowly work towards though, I guess. I'm slightly cheered by the theory that it takes three days to make or break a habit with babies. Wish us luck! And anyway, the sun is shining and she's burbling away, grabbing her toes and twiddling her hands, so it's not all bad

Well done - hang in there! Rome definitely not built in a day. You’ll get there in the end 💐