leaving kids in the car -- evil or sensible?

[oregonianabroad]

Is it totally wrong to be tempted to leave kids in the car just for a few minutes to avoid waking them and strapping them into pushchairs? I sometimes think it would be so much easier to leave them in and pop inside for a minute, but always worry that something terrible could happen while I was in the shop or whatever (but of course, we could all be flattened by a bus on the way in, or even more likely, my 2 year old could pull over a shelffull of crap in his quest for getting whatever he wants). Just curious what other people think?

whoops it was the US. It is still interesting that lovabumps police friend says it is classed as neglect if you leave a child in the car. I actually never knew that it was illegal.

Of course its illegal to neglect a child but to leave in a car is considered neglect.

at what age can you leave children in the car then? Suirely at some point, they should be given a bit of responsibility? How will they ever learn if they are never given the opportunity?

im quite happy to argue in court that i beleive herding 3 toddlers across a busy petrol station forecourt, keeping hold of them in the queue and not losing them for a moment while i pay...then back to the car and strapping them all back in, with the potential for one of them to break free while i am strapping another and run under a truck... is FAR more dangerous than locking them in the car while i go and pay and can see them all the while.

You don't hear that many stories in the press about DCs being killed by cars being hit by something. You tend to hear more stuff about kids being killed crossing roads, standing behind reversing cars etc.

I still say they are safer inside a car than milling around outside.

City of Pickerington Ohio, population approx 16,000. They havent made it clear if it is their city, I doubt it, I would say they are quoting State figures.

I've left them in the car whilst I pay for petrol or pop in for a paper where I can see them DH is a police officer and they have warned people about it but you wouldn't have any action taken against you unless it was obvious neglect.

I have always left ds in the car to pay for petrol -asked friends before I did it and they all do the same.
I park next to the cashpoint too and leave him, he can see me and I can see him.

I wouldn't do any shopping and leave him in the car.
I do have tinted windows and always lcok the car with the alarm on.

good to know maryrose. thanks.

I think leaving a sleeping child in a locked, alarmed car for a couple of minutes at something like a petrol station where you can see the car at all times through the big windows at the front is fine. It's preferable to taking children/lugging a heavy car seat across the forecourt where cars are manoeuvering I would say.

So why would the police warn people not to do this? Never do it myself but I'm not sure if that's particularly rational, I don't really understand why it would be considered dangerous enough to merit a police warning? Maybe I'm being very stupid here....

At the risk of repeating myself on every such thread it is usually much safer for children to be left in the car within their seats but with the car keys removed whilst you pay for petrol. In some countries this is clearly displayed and you are in fact prohibited from walking across the forecourt with young children. The risk of children getting bumped by (admittedly slow-moving) cars is fair more probable than something advere happening in the car. That said you need to use common sense, which is the main reason why forecourts in the UK don't publish any advice on this. If they did then they would become vicariously liable for every person who left children who were not strapped in their seats to play around with cigarette lighters and matches whilst the adult was spending half an hour doing a mini shop before paying.

Even if the dh who is a policeman isn't aware that car parks and petrol forecourts are the 2 most common locations for car collisions, then any insurance company would know. And the children are actually safer in the car due to the low speeds involved, whereas they can easily be squished if they are on the forecourt as drivers don't tend to check their blind spots that carefully.

When I said warn I just meant they would chat to you and to perhaps take you name be satisfied you weren't regularly leaving kids in the car whilst you had 8 pints in the pub. Believe me, this is the worst of the police's worries about child safety, last week dh found a 4 yr old child alone at the fair whilst his dad had walked home (half a mile away) to make a phone call.

As an aside, I was part of the management team at one of the UK's major retailers. From a H&S perspective pay at the pumps technology made much more sense, but all of the profit actually is made on non-fuel retail, so it tends to be mainly supermarkets who go for pay at pump (as you'll already have made your purchases in-store). It was always interesting to see the male-female divide on this, with all the women viewing that we would get more custom as a result of changing.

Maryrose - sorry but do I understand that your dh warns people parked on petrol forecourts?! Really? Which police authority out of interest? Have to say that I have never heard of this (and have worked in the industry for over 10 years).

Were we talking just about petrol forecourts? I thought we mentioned people popping into shops a well. I very much doubt they would bother anyone getting petrol.

Were we talking just about petrol forecourts? I thought we mentioned people popping into shops a well. I very much doubt they would bother anyone getting petrol.

The most signficant danger in leaving children in the car is the risk of overheating, or the child(ren) getting upset.

You weigh up the odds for the situation, eg we left three small children in the car on a hospice forecourt on a number of occasions because at the time it was simply the best option for us under the circumstances (not the same as leaving them for an hour for a supermarket shop I know).

I understand that it is safer to leave your children in the car on the petrol forecourt.

Of course, as they get older, they want to stay in the car, whether you want to leave them or not.

DH, also a police officer, wouldn't comment on anyone leaving a child on a petrol forecourt. He might, however say something on a carpark, if he came across a situation. Depends on the circumstances.

Oh good MaryRose, glad you meant shops and not petrol stations, I thought it seemed a bit over the top.

A mixture - sorry can you clarify under which circumstances your dh does take down names? I can't imagine many petrol retailers being happy with police coming onto their premises under those circumstances unless they had called them (and to be honest it is usually for a drive-off - someone who has filled up and left without paying).

I can't honestly see that they would have cause to takes names of anyone unless it was not obvious as to where the parents were, and the children were left for some time (and the police would have had to observe this, so in effect the children would definitely have to be out of sight of the responsible adult). Sounds rather heavy handed treatment I have to say. And can they even take your name without cautioning you?

Have a look at link lady007pink posted! Thats scary! Some people shouldn't have kids. Really puts this debate into perspective, very grey areas in this argument!

Yes, they can take down your name, address and date of birth any time they chose. And I just said they wouldn't bother people at petrol stations. But if a child was alone in a car and the parent wasn't visible, they would probably make enquiries.

They can ask for those details, but legally you don't have to provide those details unless they are reporting you for a crime. Which is why I think that this treatment is heavy handed for anyone popping into a shop to buy something for a minute or two. There is no way that that would constitute criminal neglect (except in extremem circumstances, such as a heatwave, or leaving a babby/toddler locked in a car with a dog say).

Few police officers I know have the time or inclination to walk around supermarket carparks, checking cars.

Interesting food for thought. I didn't specify, but I was actaully thinking of instances where I have left my toddler in a car asleep while I watched him from the window of a friends' house for a few minutes, or parked in our front drive, also within my sight at all times, and always with a window open (please refrain from making me feel worse about these past instances). Never did I think this would be classed as neglect! Having thought about it as a result of all the comments, I feel terribly guilty and will probably not do it again. I do think it is acceptable to leave them in a car whilst paying for petrol though, as long as the keys are removed.