I think my 6 yo just isn't a nice person.

[mummyrocks1]

I hate that I feel like this about my 6 yo, I know he's only 6 but I just dislike him so frequently. I find myself not wanting to be with him and sometimes put him in childcare in the school holidays so I don't have to be with him for more than a few days. It's a relief when I drop him at school and I get dh to do dressing him and bedtimes because I can't face being with him.

I just don't think he's a nice child and I sometimes think he's got real problems in his head. I try so hard to understand him, he's complex, just when I think I am getting somewhere and our relationship is getting better I go through a difficult period with him and I end up feeling like this again.

Reasons I just don't think he's a nice child;
He laughs when others are hurt or if he's hurt them. He has 0 empathy.
He's really me, me, me, would cheat or push someone out the way without a thought it if meant he got what he wanted.
He's really ungrateful, never says thank you unless prompted, moans if something isn't what he wanted.
Constantly purposely hides/takes thing from dd that he knows she loves to upset her.
Never takes responsibility for his actions. It's always someone else's fault, I am doing the consequences to him rather than he's earnt them himself with bad behaviour.
Never appreciates anything we do for him, holidays, new toys, trips out, cooking favourite foods.
Argues with absolutely everything dh and I say, he would Argue the sky is blue.
An incident happened at school today, something ongoing with another child, I was calm and spoke to him about it. He lied repeatedly to my face about what happened and only admitted it when the other child said what happened.
Enjoys fighting, kicking and hitting during play fighting.

Dh and have tried everything,consequences, rewards, taking favourite things away, missing trips/days out, praising his sister, praising him, parenting books, parenting courses, shouting, trying to understand/reason with him. Nothing works. I feel I ve reached a dead end with him now.

when he flips out he gets a cuddle to calm down

Isn't that just reinforcing the tantrum behaviour though?

Little kitty- that was my worry but we have found over the years this is what we have to do to calm him down. When I say hug, I mean I acknowledge his behaviour, he gets sympathy and a reassuring arm around him and an agreement with how he's feeling- not the behaviour.

I read about this kind of behaviour management in a book and I find it really works, it's really helped with our relationship too. It's helped him deal with his feelings better and quicker rather than it quickly getting out of control. I am hoping this helps him with empathy as I think he was missing this from me from 2-4 years.

If he gets put on a time out or shouted at or we try to reason with him or give him a consequence when he's reached a certain point it makes it worse. It escalates and the behaviour becomes violent and it gets into a confrontation. I only hug him for certain situations when he's had a disappointment or breaks down over something we have asked him to do. He finds it very hard to deal with certain feelings. He does get a hug or sympathy when he's having a tantrum over small things.

You need to explore your poor self esteem from when you were a child. It isn’t fixed just because you’re a different person now. You need to accept who you were and that you deserved love then as well as now. You dislike him because he is reminding you of when you disliked yourself.

Perhaps he’s naughty because he knows you don’t like him.
He’s 6 it’s up to you to make a good relationship with him.
6 year old are not known for their gratitude and ability to empathise with others.

whoever said that the 6 year old might have antisocial psychopathy disorder is WAY off the mark. It is NOT diagnosed in childhood, because all of these traits are well within the realm of normal for young children.

I would certainly not rule out a neurodiversity or a demand avoidant issue, which can be part of ASD, and this is far more likely to be it, than writing off a six year old as not nice or bad or unlikeable. It does sound like he has some challenging behaviors, but also you might need to lower expectations, and concentrate on nurturing him and loving him instead of just disciplining. It will be much better for all of your mental health

He's only six, and you say he only does this with you guys, he switches it off with everyone else.

As such I'm sorry but it's his home environment. How devastating for a child to think his own mother doesn't love him and wishes to give him away. He must feel so insecure and scared. He's pushing the boudaries and also behaving as his parents do, he is basically what you made him. His behaviour right now is not because he has some mental health issue or disability but simply he's a scared little boy who thinks his parents don't want him and doesn't know how to behave as when he behaves like his parents it's apparently wrong.

It's good you're trying to redress it, but the fact you state you don't like your own child and he has stated he knows it is something I think you and your husband need help with, help in how to parent.

I would certainly not rule out a neurodiversity or a demand avoidant issue

You need to get a grip and apply some critical thinking. This child behaves normally outwith the home environment, he has articulated he feels unloved and unwanted. At six. His mother is stating she frequently feels she dislikes him. So his perception is correct. His father looses his temper with him easily. The home environment is one of hostility between the parents. The child was effectively neglected between the ages of two and four. The mother is also projecting her own issues onto him.

This isn't there is something wrong with this child, this is he's a scared little boy playing up at home because he feels unloved and unwanted and doesn't know how to behave as he has not been brought up with good behaviour modelled to him.

He’s at the age where he’s realised you aren’t the centre of the universe, he goes to school and picks up stuff from other kids. At school it’s funny if a child falls or hurts them self, kids can be mean and bullies. Siblings do tend to torment each other.
I think it’s a bit soon to be thinking he has sociopathic tendencies or even asd, if there were issues school would be noticing too. The kids you know who don’t behave like this probably do at home.
It’s just a difficult age.

Bluntness- he doesn't know I dislike him and I never tell him that. I tell him I love him but don't like some of his behaviour. He's not scared and unloved, he's in a secure and loving family. I thought research suggests children's true behaviour comes out where they most feel secure. He says those things but it's very hard to know if he believes it, he likes saying things to upset people and says a lot of silly, simply untrue things. He would argue he's not done something again and again when you were standing there next to him and watched him do it. I think these words are aimed at me as I do the majority of discipline and telling him he can't/can do things, dh is the 'fun' parent. He just wants to do whatever he wants whenever and then there would be no problem, he fights against authority at home and sometimes at school. He lies.

Don't you dare tell me he was neglected between 2-4 years old! I did nothing but my best for him and looked after him to the best of my ability in a difficult period. I love him unconditionally. I made mistakes in this period, but did my best. Sorry I wasn't a perfect parent whilst having two under 3's, working, a tricky baby and a very tricky toddler. F off bluntness.

He’s 6. He knows you don’t like him.

Bran- you're absolutely right. That's what we have been doing, hence why we use positive behaviour management as much as we can, we hug and reassure when he's clearly struggling to cope with his emotions. I try to phrase things in a certain way so it's not confrontational- it's bloody hard work doing this 24/7 sometimes it slips. I have completely changed the way I deal with his behaviour in lots of ways. He has clear consequences, expectations laid out, rewards but at the end of the day he chooses if he wants to be good or not and he's stated to us several times he doesn't want to be good, he doesn't want to conform, he enjoys being silly and badly behaved at times. He says he thinks we want him to be perfect, we have had several long chats about this and how this isn't the case, and there are just 2/3 things we can both do to make things better but he doesn't listen.

He’s 6. Six years old. He’s a small boy. The behaviours he’s exhibiting don’t sound outside of the normal range for his age. Maybe you need to look at yourself and the filter you’re viewing him through. You’ve said he reminds you of yourself as a child. You’ve said you drew back from him emotionally when he was 2. You seem to have very fixed ideas of what he is like as a person when he is still changing and growing and your behaviour towards him is actually what is helping to form him as a person. I think you need to look at your thoughts and the judgements.

OP I feel for you, this sounds like a really tough situation. One of my DC has SEN that weren’t picked up on for far too long so for ages I thought I was a terrible mother with a horrible child. Neither of those things are true- we were both just struggling with how to handle life.

What I’m picking up from you is huge amounts of stress and fear which will be feeding back into your son when you’re engaging with him, particularly when dealing with a “naughty” incident. He’ll be feeling all that and knows it’s and about him, he’ll know you think he is a “problem” and he will internalise that. That’s something you need to change. He can’t be let to establish that narrative of himself.

The other thing I notice is that your husband is “the fun” one, and you have to be “the disciplinarian”. Time to switch that up. It isn’t fair and it will damage your relationship with your son. DH needs to step up and take on more discipline and you need to make a conscious effort to be silly and goofy and have a load more fun interactions with DS. This will help DS massively. And you as well really, because if you’re laughing, you’re feeling good!

Talk with DH, he needs to be on board with the discipline, showing a united front and taking the lead more often. And you step back and be the fun parent too.

www.amazon.co.uk/Book-Wish-Your-Parents-Children/dp/0241250994/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1559731601&refinements=p_27%3APhilippa+Perry&sr=1-1

OP, you won't win this argument with some posters. They can only ever see causation arrows pointing from parent to child (the parent's negative emotions MUST be causing problems in the kid), and it never ever crosses their mind that the arrows might actually be pointing the other way--that the child was in fact a difficult person to begin with and that's why the parent is (understandably) experiencing negative feelings. Some human beings are just less likable than others and other people don't get on with them as well. That fact does not magically stop being true just because the person in question is under 18.

I think what you need to bear in mind is that you recognize many of these traits in yourself, but appear to have grown out of themthat suggests, encouragingly, that your child will grow out of them too. Most children with callous or antisocial traits do in fact grow out of them (which is why personality disorders are not diagnosed in minors). In the meantime, try to be patient and be kind to yourself. It's OK to have negative feelings about someone who is really difficult to be around. You are a humanand so is he.

My brother and I were both like this as children. In both of our cases the problem went away when we got more challenging work / play at school and home. Get his IQ tested - bet it’s high.

Also, If he’s fine with your DH and the problems are around you then there may be an element of insecurity around you. Kids aren’t stupid and especially not at that age - they can pick up when one of their parents isn’t interested.

Kokeshi the only thing we can help the OP with is what she can do differently. If she accepts that her child is just unlikeable and there’s nothing she can do to change it then the relationship is doomed. She has to believe that she has been an influence in his behaviour order to believe she can change it.

And what if she can't and the only result is that she just spends her time relentlessly beating herself up and blaming herself for everything her child does?

I think sometimes it's better to accept that some people (this includes kids) are hard to get along with--but that they may improve with time.

OP, it doesn’t matter how much you tell him you love him, or how many chats you have where you explain he doesn’t have to be perfect he just has to change these small little things about himself. He knows you don’t like him. I promise you.

Seek so.e assessment from.educarinal.psychologust via school or via GP.
Find out if it is an underlying issue and or you can get support to deal.with dc behaviour.

He is six.
You have responsibility to support him and seek support

That’s a very big what if, Kokeshi. Is it worth abandoning her chance of a better relationship with her child on a what if?

@Branleuse it's called CU in children - Callous and unemotional traits en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Callous_and_unemotional_traits

Don't you dare tell me he was neglected between 2-4 years old!
You said this yourself though, so it's not surprising a PP has stated this.
I agree with everything Bluntness said - you need to look at your own behaviour and feelings first of all. You have said yourself you often don't like him, which he has rephrased by saying you don't love him and want to give him away. He knows how you feel, even if you say you love him.
Yes, he might receive a diagnosis of some kind as an adult. This shouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind in this case though, he's only six and the behaviours you describe sound challenging, but normal. It is far too early to label him. I think you should see a professional to work through your own feelings, because you sound extremely conflicted and as if you are the root cause of the fraught relationship with your DS.

OP - my DD had very little empathy and still isn't brilliant.

She was never mean to other children but didn't connect very well and could be very cold.

Like adults, some children are just more caring than others.

I think its far too early to start diagnosing, however the exception is if your son purposefully hurts and animal or smaller child and gets pleasure from it. What you describe above could be more like teasing, or a reaction if he inadvertently hurts another child, but you will know the difference and should act if you feel its deliberate cruelty. That is a red flag and you should see your GP and get a referral,

Should this not be required you have 2 issues - building empathy and building relationships.

With regards to building empathy, we read lots of books, watched movies and discussed appropriate reactions and kindness. I am not a big fan of the very specific 'be kind' type of books but we found the Anna Hibiscus, Wonder. The Invisible Boy etc really good for this. Roald Dahl, David Walliams less so.

There are tons of movies - ET, Petes Dragon, Inside Out that would also be good to watch together.

With regards to building relationships, coffee shop trips etc are all important and I would try and involve your son in instances where you are being kind to others - helping older person with shopping, giving to homeless etc. Leading by example is the best way they can learn