Three year old and preschool - any EYFS people about?

[sittinggeese]

Hi all,

Bit of advice/thoughts if you don't mind from those who've been there and done it or work in an early years childcare setting.

My three year old started going to a preschool for three mornings a week at the start of the year and recently increased to three days a week after her birthday (so she's now doing just over her funded 15 hours). I'm a sahm, and before going she'd never been left with anyone other than grandparents before although she's always delighted to be left with them.

We had a bit of upset at drop off the first week which I expected but other than that she seemed to be settling ok. She likes to go and is never upset at drop off now. The manager (who is her key worker) asked if she had a comforter to bring for when she feels a bit unsettled which she does.

Since we've gone to full days at almost every pick up if I ask how she's been/if she's had a nice day I'm being told that she's very anxious, particularly about where I am, tends to stick to her key worker, cries when she's asked to change activity (but is fine once distracted by the new task) and that she seems to obsess over things (like she'll ask something repeatedly or talk about the same thing over and over). They've asked me to collect her half an hour early each day because they think she's finding the longer days hard (she does 9:15- 3pm) since she's dropped her last nap. They keep using words like 'rigid' and 'obsessed' and although she can be a bit stubborn at home I wouldn't go so far as to say she's rigid.

Is this normal? Every day I'm starting to feel like they're trying to tell me there's something wrong with her, but I mostly feel like this is fairly normal just turned three year old behaviour. She's generally pretty well behaved at home, she does throw the odd wobbler when she can't have her own way which I manage appropriately- I think. She is very inquisitive, she's advanced with her academic learning (speech, counting, letters etc) to the point where they've asked if I mind her taking part in the phonics learning with the older children there. We don't hot house her in any way I've just always had time to read with her, play numbers games etc and she loves it. I always thought her inquisitiveness was just part of her learning. She has been a bit grumpier than usual lately but I've put that down to cutting her final nap and her getting used to that.

I don't mind collecting her early if it's in her best interests I will do whatever to ensure that she's happy and settled. But should I be asking them to manage this better? They've suggested we buy a trampoline because she occasionally tip toe walks and apparently they do this to make themselves feel 'bigger' and the bouncing can ease their anxiety.

This is all new to me!

Personally, I'd drop her hours down and look into starting her in reception a year later (so at just turned five rather than just turned four). They may be forgetting just how young she is. Three years old spans a wide range and almost four is vastly different from just three.

She will be five and a half when she starts her reception year at school already. She's five in the early April and starts the following September.

She's currently just turned three, so she's got this term then another full school year at the preschool before she starts 'real' school.

The preschool take children from age two up until they start reception so they have a wide range of ages there, she's bang in the middle age wise.

Why would you remove her?

Sorry not remove, drop hours?

Why will she be 5 1/2 when she starts reception?

If utimately you think they are ‘seeing’ a disability that isn’t there I would change provider and find a new pre school.
If you’re unsure or you do trust there judgement I’d perhaps have a chat with a GP.

Sorry I'm wrong. She turns four next April and starts school in the September so she'll be four and a half when she starts.

I would reduce her hours because she's still tiny and clearly struggling.

She's done three weeks of full days so far, is this long enough to surmise that she can't manage it/ is struggling or not enough time to see if it's normal settling in stuff? I'd have thought a preschool would be well used to children of this age having a bit of a wobble for a bit when it's a change?

She's been put in for her 15 hours a week so she learns to socialise and becomes familiar with a childcare setting before school. She wasn't well when she was small so I never got to baby groups although we did used to go to a church playgroup but I stayed too.

I find at home full time she gets bored even though I do loads of activities with her - we play, paint, read, colour, bake, go to the park and in the garden, do imaginative stuff like dolls/play shop etc.

I would ask for a meeting with her keyworker and ask if her behaviour is different to what they expect generally, and be open to their answer. Remember the manager has seen hundreds of children her age and is well placed to say if a behaviour is typical or not.

If there is a concern from the nursery i would listen to them. Try picking her up half hour early each day see if that helps. Has there been any other change recently new baby toilet training moved to big girl bed?

@Nousernameforme She had a new baby brother nine months ago so could be that but to be honest I'd be surprised. She loves him, I've never once had to ask her to be kind or gentle to him and it was some time ago now but it could be that it's unsettled her.

Moved to a big girl bed when I was pregnant, after she saw the new bed we'd bought for her and refused to sleep in the 'baby room' a second longer

She's so ready to toilet train, definitely but she flatly refuses to sit on the toilet currently! I've stopped mentioning it at all for a few weeks and am planning to do it during the summer holidays.

I would ask for a meeting with her keyworker and ask if her behaviour is different to what they expect generally, and be open to their answer. Remember the manager has seen hundreds of children her age and is well placed to say if a behaviour is typical or not.

This.

I haven't had a formal meeting with them but the manager is her key worker and I speak to her at pick up every day. I have been going half hour early as she asked for a week.

I asked her flat out if her behaviour was usual last week because she kept mentioning it and she said that she was on the more anxious side and that they found her quite rigid and obsessive. She couldn't really explain what she meant though, just said she asks the same thing several times and doesn't like to change activity. That's why I'm confused a bit - to me not many just three year olds like changing activity and repeating questions also doesn't strike me as unusual.

If there is something that needs further looking into I'm more than open to it, if she has issues then I will give her all the support I can to help. But I guess I just wanted opinions on if it sounds like her behaviour is typical really.

She's only just three, in a childcare setting for the first time after being at home with a sahm all her life. I've sent her because I can't give her the group socialisation at home and I think it'd be a bit much to send her to school next year with her never having been in that sort of setting before. I've taken lots of care to choose a small, friendly preschool. It's a little private one attached to a village school. They have 20 children maximum speaks around 6 members of staff so lots of time for small group play etc.

3 whole days is quite a lot if she's not used to it. My son is also starting school in 2020 and currently does 2 days of 10-3. If she seems to be struggling and there's no need for her to be there all 3 days then maybe it's best she does 1 and half days or 2 shorter days?

That's why I started her with mornings only for the first term @Seaandsand83. She did three mornings (9-12:30) to begin with, then second term increased to three days (9-3). It forces the dropping of her nap, but to be honest I didn't mind that because the nap was causing all sorts of bedtime messing about by that time. She did used to go, then come home and have a sleep.

I have to keep the full days booked to keep her place, but I can collect her early whenever I want, they don't mind as long as the place is paid for. So I may look so start getting her early for a bit and see if that helps then go back up to 3 full days in September. Doesn't sound long away 4 months is a long time when they're small.

to me not many just three year olds like changing activity and repeating questions also doesn't strike me as unusual
Clearly with your DD though it is to an unusual degree or they wouldn't keep mentioning it.

As a previous EYFS teacher,

This is normal for 3 year olds, they tend to continue doing the same activity over and over again if they know they are enjoying it. It is up to the nursery staff to progress on this, e.g. if said child likes practicing riding the bikes, you would introduce activities related to this interest or progress on it by asking said child questions and introducing key words in order for said child to be at their developmental stage.

As for her emotional well-being, where the key worker has stated that your child is feeling rigid or obsessive, ask her in what areas does this emotion spike from and once you know you are able to talk to her about it. However, during my time at the nursery we introduced a book called 'a big book of emotions' and often in circle time before activities start we would ask how the children are feeling.

Your child is doing well in her intellectual learning if the key worker has asked you about phonics placement etc. Don't feel upset or worried at this moment as she's still young and developing.

@Sittinggeese,

Hello, I am an early years teacher and have encountered a range of behaviours during my years of teaching.

We must remember that each child is an individual and process and interact with the world around them in a different ways.

Some children love the idea of preschool or nursery on the first day and then when it actually settles in that they will be there without you on a regular basis they find this hard to manage.

On a positive note, it's a sign of a good attachment with you. I know it can be so disheartening as a parent if your child is upset or distressed but this can actually be caused by a range of factors.

Through preschool the concept of sharing, turn taking or even having to express your needs to unfamiliar people or children can be quite difficult for younger children.

What strategies are the preschool promoting to support her? As she has good language skills she should be able to let you know what she thinks of preschool or if anything is causing her anxiety.

Usually when a child is of school age and terms like "rigid" or "obsessed" are being used along with transition difficulties one might look into spectrum behaviours. But considering that she is barely 3 I would say that she is just following her interests and reluctant to change activities which most children have difficulties with! Part of the characteristics of learning explores how a child maintains focus for a period of time and shows fascination on activities of their choosing..I would say she was showing signs of being well and truly engaged?

Does she walk on tip toes at home? Sometimes if a child has a particular sensory need or overload they can find it difficult to walk on the floor. Have you experienced anything that has made you feel concerned?

Hey, I wouldn't reduce hours just yet. Children are more resilient than we give them credit for. Walking on tip toes is a sign of an anxiety. I used to work with a girl who did this and hers stemmed from noisy neighbours at home. If I were you, I would make sure you're telling your little girl that preschool is on certain days and give her warning that those days are coming up. Maybe get her to take her favourite book in or make a picture for her to take in. You could also set her a task to do something like a painting or a model for her to focus on whilst she's there and therefore it distracts her plus, she'll be able to bring it home and build up a connection between preschool and home. Another idea would be to ask the nursery if they can provide a visual timetable for her so she knows what her day entails whilst she's in their care and she also knows when

'hometime' is. That way she will know that you're on your way. In my opinion you shouldn't worry or even be thinking about Reception years yet. Building up her confidence and her change of routine is more important as that will settle her anxieties. Hope this helps.
*taught eyfs for 13 yrs

I'd ask what strategies they are using go support transitions during the day: visual time table, now and next, countdown warnings (so "in 5 minutes we will be stopping for lunch... 3 minutes til lunch time..etc), then maybe you could do something similar at home.

If she's only increased the hours this term in line with getting the funding, it does seem early to express concerns in such a way. I wouldn't expect more than a "Polly is struggling a bit with the transitions during the day, I expect she's still adjusting to the longer hours. We are trying xyz to help her so will keep you updated".

Thanks everyone for your responses. I typed a big reply out last week and I thought it had posted but it must not have. Wasn't being ignorant, sorry.

I don't see any signs at home that trouble me particularly. She tip toe walks at home a little bit but not loads. I just tell her 'flat feet please' and she drops down. She throws tantrums sometimes, maybe once or twice a week but they don't last long and normally it's when she's tired/hungry etc. What I would as a non expert as usual three year old stuff.

She is an old soul, and she is advanced on the academic side. She talks like a little adult, which is surprising considering she could barely talk at all a year ago- her speech explosion coincided with her getting glasses (we've recently found out one eye was damaged at birth which is a whole other story - thanks forceps - she's very short sighted in one eye) which the paediatric eye doctor we saw said was pretty usual. Her use of language in context surprises me.

She's my first so I'm not always sure what is 'normal' for a child of just over three. Her key worker has shown surprise that she can count to 25, knows all her alphabet, can write simple letters, recognised familiar words like Mummy and her name (she's not reading, but recognises them like a picture) does really basic addition in her head (when unpacking the shopping the other day I put three tins of beans on the side and she said 'two tins of beans and one more is three!' and she does stuff like this at playgroup). She draws people with all their limbs and facial pictures in the right places.

I have sent her today. She had last week off because we were on holiday and she was ill earlier in the week. Agreed to collect her at 1pm which was good because she was struggling when I got there which I expected but I wanted her to go even if just for a morning because three whole weeks away with half term next week seemed a long time for her. Had a chat with her keyworker and she reiterated what she's previously said - she's unusually anxious, doesn't cope with transitions and needs an adult with her all the time to keep her happy. I've agreed that I will collect her at 1pm instead of 3pm for the first few weeks after half term and look to gradually increase it if she's coping.

I had a chat with her this evening. She said she gets sad at playgroup because I'm not allowed to stay and because the children are noisy. So far pretty much what I expected. I asked what made her happy at playgroup and to my surprise she said 'when they let me have a dummy out of the dummy cupboard, it's for special big girls who listen to the teachers'

Now, she is categorically not allowed a dummy. They asked me to send a comforter and I have, it is not a dummy. She hasn't had one since she was a baby. She's been asking for one at home again but I put that down to our baby having one (I remove at 12m) and I've been telling her dummies are for babies.

I will ring them tomorrow and ask what she's talking about but they way she said it makes me feel it's true. She described it specifically and said she has it when she cries.

Surely this isn't standard?

Could it not possibly be her comforter causing the problems? Every time she sees it or realises it's there it may remind her that she's supposed to be sad? I know that sounds backwards but since you said she can be distracted by an activity but then goes sad again? It seems it kicked off more SINCE they suggested the comforter. Is she not allowed to go and have a little rest time after lunch. That may help her too. The dummy thing is plain odd and is a proper no no in nursery terms especially at 3 so I would defo ask about that.

She's had her comforter there with her since about her third or fourth day.

I will definitely be speaking to them about the dummy thing. I won't be at all happy if it's true. Aside from anything else she keeps getting ill constantly. Not surprising if she's got a communal dummy in her mouth all the time, and it feels deceitful as they've never mentioned it to me.

I'm not going in all guns blazing though. It could be wrong. It just seems an odd thing to say if it's not true.

I think a lot of the behaviour sounds very normal for a 3 year old who has just settled into somewhere new (and just starting at 2, it’s all still pretty new). Mine started at 9 months and still sometimes had days like this sometimes.

I actually think it sounds like maybe they aren’t doing a very good job with her. I think their feedback seems a bit odd out of context of a discussion about what they are doing to support her. It sounds more like ‘complaining’ than sharing meaningful feedback so you can both support her.

I’ve had 2 in nursery (though because I had to work so maybe slightly different) and I’ve never been asked to pick up early except for illness or snow. It’s their job to find ways to help her feel comfortable there. They couldn’t just call a working parent at 1 because she was having a challenging day. They’d have to work with you to find a solution. The dummy thing flags up that they may not be engaging her the way they should and are just trying to placate her til you get there. No way would our nursery be giving random dummies to 3 year olds.

I think the issue is @mindutopia she's like it all the time (apparently) not just the odd day.

I felt the same about if I was a working parent actually. They've made a point before about how because I'm one of the few a SAHMs there I can 'just come and collect whenever'. I can actually, at the moment, but they've got no idea what I do at home or what's going on in my life. (Incidentally not much right now except caring for a small baby too but they don't know that!).

DDs happiness and welfare is my absolute priority and I will go and get her when she needs me. But I wonder what they'd do if I said no, sorry, we pay until three so I can't collect until then. I won't do that because I can't bear the thought of DD being distressed but really they'd just have to manage it wouldn't they!

If you were at work they would just have to manage the situation rather than repeatedly call you back early. It sounds like because they know you're a SAHP they are using that as a way to not work with and support your daughter.