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Original poster

Very difficult sibling relationship `

38 replies

SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 10:47

I'm feeling really stumped and sad at the moment about my two DSs relationship. Here's a quick(?) sketch of the situation:

I have DD(14), DS(12), and DS(9). DS1 has always found DS2 difficult to get along with. They have very different personalities. DS1 is quite quiet, bookish, serious, stickler for rules. DS2 is very loud, physically "full on", has no compunction about winding people up on purpose. He's also "gender non-conforming" which I know DS1 finds embarrassing (eg DS2 likes wearing skirts, playing with "girly" things, etc).

We live in a 3 bed flat, and the DSs share a large room. They each have a high double bed, so there's space underneath one for a desk and chairs, and under the other for a little sofa and TV. We have a rule that "beds are sacred", by which we mean that no one may ever go on another person's bed without permission (this is to give the DSs a sense of having there very own space, even though they share a room).

Anyway, DS1 absolutely cannot stand DS2 at the moment, and with them sharing a room this is causing so much tension. This morning DS1 had a complete melt down, ostensibly because DS2 was singing while getting ready for school. DS2 has form for singing "on purpose" to wind DS1 up, but he also is just a bit of a hummer. I feel it's unreasonable to ban singing (which is one of the many things DS1 wants!).

DS1 was in floods of tears, and was screaming into the sofa and punching it, saying how much he hates DS2. I tried to let him know that it's okay to feel really furious, and that his way of venting it was actually pretty good. I was glad that he wasn't lashing out at DS2. DS1 at that point said he wanted to kill DS2, and that he wished he didn't exist.

I just feel really stuck with how to help them get on, or at least how to help DS1 feel more resilient to the irritations of his younger brother. On the one hand I've been trying to think of solutions to the room sharing (move to a bigger house? Can't afford it. Decant a child to the sitting room? Various reasons why this would be horrible. Swap DD and DS1? Again, a number of reasons why this would be difficult).

I also keep coming back to a feeling that DS1 needs to recognise that life is sometimes a bit crap, and sometimes you just have to make the best of the situation. Many siblings in the city we live in share rooms, and he just needs to deal with it. Does that sound unreasonable? I honestly don't know. I also suspect that a non-room-sharing set up wouldn't be a solution to this problem...I'm pretty sure he would find plenty of other opportunities to hate DS2.

Anyway, please oh please does anyone have any advice?

OP posts:
FlagFish · 20/02/2019 10:55

Personally I think you CAN ban singing. It's not something that DS2 actually NEEDS to do - or, if he really needs to do it, he can go to a different room or sing in the shower or something. I'm sure you try hard to be fair, but your post does read as if you think this is more about DS1 changing his reaction than DS2 changing his behaviour, whereas I think it needs to be both.

Have you considered family therapy? I agree with you about giving DS1 tools to deal with the situation, but it sounds like he may need more help than you are able to give him.

brassbrass · 20/02/2019 10:58

Have you read your post? Do you have any intention of addressing how your DS1 feels by actually tackling DS2 when he's out of order. If you know he's doing something on purpose to wind up DS1 why aren't you stopping it? You seem to have a blind spot with DS2. Don't be surprised if they never have a good sibling relationship even as adults. What about teaching DS2 that what he's doing is not ok and will result in consequences?

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:02

Okay, maybe I should ban singing. I have previously suggested to DS2 that he goes out of the room when he's singing. This morning it was more like absent-minded humming/ quiet singing/mumbling. I do see that it looks like I'm focusing on modifying DS1's behaviour, but I am honestly very "on it" about DS2's unreasonable behaviour (of which there is much!).

Family therapy is probably a wise option, but I'm a bit daunted by the expense of it :-(

OP posts:

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SD1978 · 20/02/2019 11:04

So DS1 has to suck up and accept that DS2 can do whatever the hell he wants, and for maximum irritation, and he should be resilient to this? No wonder they don't get on. There should be boundaries for and towards both. If DS1 hates singing (I would) then it should be limited- especially as you've acknowledged it's purely as a wind up. Juts because ds2 is brighter and more outgoing and 'different' doesn't give him the priority in life regarding all family matters.

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:06

Oh yikes, x-post with brassbrass, yes, as above I realise how that post reads. I was trying to keep it concise, and left out a lot of info about how we are tackling DS2's behaviour. He is very high maintenance, and DH and I are having our parenting skills tested to the max with setting boundaries etc. Slowly but surely, he is improving, and becoming less volatile etc.

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 20/02/2019 11:07

I agree with previous posters about addressing DS2's behaviour.

You say they share a large room - is there no way of creating two smaller separate spaces?

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:09

Where on earth have I said DS2 can do whatever he wants and DS1 has to suck it up? And as I noted in my original post the singing isn't purely a wind up. I am happy to accept that I should ban singing though. It just seemed a bit heavy handed at the time.

OP posts:
GreenTulips · 20/02/2019 11:11

Can’t the younger two share and give the older one his own room

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:11

Okay, please please read what I'm saying: DH and I are VERY aware of DS2's behaviour, and are absolutely setting boundaries with him. This post was focusing on DS1 because it was he who had a melt down this morning, and I'm sad/worried for him.

OP posts:
Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:12

The younger two (DS1 and DS2) are sharing. DD(14) has her own room.

OP posts:
brassbrass · 20/02/2019 11:18

focusing on DS1 because it was he who had a melt down this morning

He is the most impacted by the behaviour hence the melt down which you and your DH clearly are not dealing with adequately.

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:24

Just to add to the picture - DS2 actually quite idolises DS1, and given half a chance will hang out happily with him. DS1 mostly rejects DS2's "olive branches", and is often verbally very unkind to DS2 (and yes, I am very clear with him that this is not allowed).

OP posts:
Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:27

brassbrass - not dealing adequately with what? The melt down? Or DS2's behaviour? As mentioned a couple of times above, we do NOT let DS2 get away with being a wind-up merchant. I could bore on about what we're doing to tackle his difficult behaviour if that helps give a fuller picture?

OP posts:
EhlanaOfElenia · 20/02/2019 11:28

Two such different personalities shouldn't be sharing a room I'm afraid. They are just too different, and both need somewhere to be themselves, which neither have at the moment. Could the adults take the lounge room and give your room to 1 of the DSs?

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:32

Ehlana - I've thought about that, but it would have to be a last resort option. We have cats who we usually shut in the sitting room at night because they wake us up. I'm a horribly light sleeper, so it would be resigning myself to years of sleep deprivation!

OP posts:
AssassinatedBeauty · 20/02/2019 11:36

Is there no way of partitioning their room?

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:37

Not really any way of partitioning the room, unless one room was windowless. I guess part of my dilemma / concern here is that it's not just about sharing a room. DS1 doesn't want to share a HOUSE with DS2!

OP posts:
Yabbers · 20/02/2019 11:38

Two such different personalities shouldn't be sharing a room I'm afraid. They are just too different

Or, teenagers need to learn to share space with people they are different to.

Loulzze · 20/02/2019 11:48

What about a heavy curtain to partition the room, something like that just move-able? Then you could have "sacred sides" for when ds1 needs some space and in the evening?

Don't let negative posts get to you, one little post can't give a full picture and you seem like you're doing your best.

All I can say is keep talking to ds1 about being calm and accepting and removing himself from the situation and have consequences for DS2 which you sound like you're doing anyway and it'll pass, they'll grow out of it! Flowers

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/02/2019 11:51

A partition could have glass/transparent panels at the top for light.

It might be easier for DS1 to live with DS2 if he had a small bit of space he could be away from him for a while.

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 11:51

Loulzze - thanks! I wasn't expecting such "robust" replies :-D. I am going to investigate the curtain idea (but there's a gloomy little voice in me that says that wouldn't be enough to diffuse the antagonism).

OP posts:
pisspawpatrol · 20/02/2019 12:00

Does DS1 get much time to himself in their room? If he is a quiet, bookish (introverted perhaps?) kind of person I can imagine that having much more extrovert DS2 around ALL the time must be exhausting for him. Can you give him 60-90 minutes a day where only he gets the bedroom for him to have a break from DS2? You could take DS2 out to the park/ a hobby, something that will exhaust him enough that he then doesn't bother his brother much when they're in the room together.

I think separating them in any kind of manner for a while each day for them to be comfortable in their own spaces will may be help the times they are forced together. You could talk to them separately and together about this without it seeming like you're punishing them.

MumUnderTheMoon · 20/02/2019 12:01

All the kids need their own space. Are you single or do you have a partner? It's just that that would affect my suggestions eg if you are single move you and dd into the biggest room with a curtain separating the space and put the boys in separate rooms or buy a very good regular use sofa bed/ Murphy bed and use that for you/ you and your oh in the living room.

Original poster
SpawnChorus · 20/02/2019 15:10

Pisspaw - yes, this is one of the things we've been working on more recently, but could definitely expand on. I'm a massive introvert myself, so I really do get how important it is to have non-people time. DS1 has more hobbies/activities than DS2, so unfortunately he's out of the house at some of the same times that DS2 is out.

MumUnder - I agree to a certain extent that all kids need their own space, but does this mean they need their own room? I know of numerous families with siblings sharing rooms, and certainly back in the "old days" it was the norm! I'm not single, and as noted above the living-room is going to be a tricky sleeping space for me (although if needs must...)

OP posts:
Ribbonsonabox · 20/02/2019 15:15

Can you partition just part of the room so that the bed areas are separate? Even if one bit doesn't have a window, if the partition is not the whole way across the room then that wouldn't matter so much?
It really sounds like they desperately need their own space away from each other.