Nearly 4 year old causing such strife

[Benny4]

Please help.......I have nearly 4 year old twins, and a 6 year old. My eldest is such a sweet, loving child, with the odd behavioural challenge but nothing unmanageable. One twin can be particularly defiant with my DH, wilful and a bit of a diva, but again fairly typical behaviour, within reason, for her age group. However the other twin I ask advice about is outrageously naughty. She has scratched my eldest, so hard that she has a permanent scar on her forehead. She regularly scratches, bites and pinches her twin sister. The other twin is no saint, but nowhere in her league either. She is outright defiant with me or my DH a lot of the time. Has no problem shouting and screaming at us in public, or at home. Can stop dead in her tracks, I've never seen stubbornness on the same scale. She was caught drawing on the kitchen floor tiles earlier, and then deliberately knocked over a beaker of milk a couple of hours later. I'm at my wits end, exhausted with the daily battle, sad and perhaps a little defeated for the impact it us having on us as a family, and believe it or not, I'm no pushover either. Her list of misbehaviours is endless, and I've honestly never known anything quite like it. She's made me question my parenting skills, so please help with tips, suggestions etc on how we can achieve a more harmonious home.

What consequences are there for bad behavior and are you consistent

Tell us about your routine and how you set rules and deal with behaviours.

What is she like in school , with others etc.

There could be lots of reasons.

Busy household so learnt behaviour to get your attention. Any attention is worth having.

A very wilful child that needs extremely set routines and boundaries with consequences carried out without any leeway.

Do you feel you spend all day sorting out problems. Consciously look at how much individual time you give her not to tell her off or when she's asked for it but because you've just sat and played with her. Do you sort stuff out then move off to do jobs.
Making time to play and praise her plus strong boundaries - time out etc will work. But only if she has the individual time with you as well. Sounds daft but mentally check how often you praise her or give her attention for no reason.
It may not be that it may be something else. But that just an idea.
Parents sometimes don't have the time or get out of the routine of just playing.

If you think she's attention-seeking, praise the good and ignore the bad?

We have tried time out, which I'm not a big fan of, because if I do the minute per year of age rule, 4-5 minutes has no impact at all, and anything longer feels as if I am isolating her, out of sheer desperation I did 30 mins once and felt awful.

I have also tried taking away favourite toys and after the initial annoyance for her, she is not remotely bothered.

Treats have been withheld, but again I struggle with this one, as I admittedly feel terrible if her sisters are getting to enjoy something nice.

She is a bit of a loner, very poker faced and it's only the odd child or adult that she warms to. She is amazingly kind and nurturing with younger children, and I would say fairly bright.

I'm pretty sure it's a case of any attention is better than no attention, and both of my twins sadly do not get on very well with DH

I definitely struggle to fit in quality playtime with her, but her week is fairly well structured with nursery, music school, swimming and dance school. We usually go to the park or town for lunch out on a Weds, and Sun we go to church.

Praise is 100% forth coming from me, as I am acutely aware she needs this to try and balance the negativity out. If anything I would say she probably gets more praise than her twin.

I know they get a bad rep on here but have you tried talking to your HV?

Do you have access to a twins club?
TAMBA also offer online webinars for parents of twins struggling with behaviour issues. Might be worth a look?

My 5 year old is exactly the same OP. I know how awful it is. I was doing the very best I could but his behaviour got worse and worse. Now he is being assessed for autism, particularly PDA, so we are receiving (some) support from professionals. His behaviour is a bit better but I feel so relieved to know it's not me failing as a parent.
PDA is a need to control situations and not be told what to do. It often means they do everything they know they shouldn't do. I'm not saying your DD has this but may be there are underlying issues.
Our HV said, if it's affecting family life then is IS a big issue. And she made lots of referrals. So maybe worth contacting them if DD is not at school yet.

Two possibilities both of which could be completely wrong ...

How does she sleep? Could she be tired by any chance? Swimming, dance, music and nursery sounds quite full on for a three (nearly four) year old; or are those activities on separate days? Does she have any time to just "be" and chill, or is that when her behaviour deteriorates?

If your twins don't get on well with your DH (why not?) does that mean you are over-stretched and she is attention-seeking in the wrong way? If so, you have a dh problem not a DD problem.

Wow thank you so much for the replies......my DH is against HV involvement. This stems from his own childhood, he is a twin also and his mum had a terrible time with their behaviours, so She had to turn to the professionals. He really won't budge on it, and I dread the fallout if I go ahead and he is not on board.

I'm intrigued by this PDA, because it describes my DD to a tee.

Our family life is definitely being affected, and I worry about all of them see I g mummy and daddy so grumpy. DD starts school in Sept.

I have DTs who are just over three OP and my goodness they are challenging!! I have to say that most days I feel I'm just surviving, not enjoying the experience, which is not what I thought parenting would be like

Have you tried talking to your DD's nursery to see what she's like there, if they could help at all? DTS1 was such a pain for months but (apparently!) he is fine at preschool. Could you also get her hearing checked, if you haven't already? I found that part of the problem was that he only has partial hearing in one ear - it was both but the glue ear has cleared at one side - and he'll probably need a hearing aid if this doesn't improve too.

To deny you help from the people there to support you because of something that happened in his childhood (what 25, 30, 40+ years ago?) is totally unfair.

I find it really difficult to fit in playtime too (especially one on one) and DH just gets bored with them after a bit. Do you have any family nearby who could help? We only have PIL - TAMBA did suggest to me that the PIL could take one twin every so often whilst I get quality time with the other, which I thought was a good idea, but MIL's currently being treated for cancer so there's a limited time they want to look after any rampaging toddlers for!

I think HV of the past are very different to now. The HV is there to over advice and it’s your choice to take it.

The triple P parenting course is good, especially for more challenging children and your HV will be able to help you get on it.

Sleeping has never been a problem, she gets the full 12hrs, and is very good at staying in her own bed.

Activities are spread out throughout the week, and she absolutely gets a chance to chill too.

The clash with DH stems from their inability to take instruction from him. Although again she is marginally better than the other twin, and will show him affection. I believe DH is pivotal to this situation, but unfortunately he is a slow burner, and takes longer than I would like before he realises his part.

One-to-one time with me or DH works absolute wonders with my twins. We ‘divide and conquer’ each taking one child at the weekend. And even just 5 minutes of focused attention while the other DT is asleep or playing makes a difference to behaviour. Harder with three DC but worth a try.

How would it be if you thought of all of her behaviour as a way to show you she is feeling and ask you to help her feel happy and connected again? How would that affect your responses?

Your DDs are lucky to have a mummy who cares so much about getting it right for them and who wants a happy, harmonious home.. Your tricky DD is smart, she’s trying to get your help.

Try this article It’s a way to make parenting fun again. You won’t need to do things you don’t enjoy such as time outs/ consequences/ withholding treats etc. All of that is such a drain on your energy.

Enjoy your family, OP. You are all good.

When I attended her parents evening back in October the feedback was great, and possibly a little unexpected. "She comes in very confident, goes over to her friends(!), and will confidently read a story in front of a group of children".

She's actually booked in to have her ears checked.

I couldn't agree more about the unfairness or unwillingness to access a HV based on his past. However family dynamics and politics are a tricky business and I am doing my best to change his outdated perception. My troubled DD gets her stubbornness from him!

No family are local, bar one, who has mental health issues, so in a nutshell no.

I feel for you OP. You sound like a lovely mum. Don’t think your DH is helping. He gets bored playing so leaves it to you or they don’t get the one to one play time? He won’t let you seek professional advice? I have 5 DDs and honestly, couldn’t do it without the support of my DH. No wonder you’re struggling. Have you told him how bad you’re feeling about it all?

To be fair to DH he helps in practical ways an awful lot, considering he works f/t, but emotionally he is unavailable for the twins. They are stuck in a cycle, and I keep telling him he is the adult and needs to break the pattern, but I can almost see why he doesn't, because they can be really rotten to him. He rarely does one to one with them, definitely makes it clear he does not want outside help, and as for telling him hie I feel, I've kind of given up trying. I'm not sure if he fits the criteria for 'depression, but either way he has nothing left in the tank to take on my woes.

It sounds like your DH is carrying a lot of emotional baggage from his childhood as a twin OP, would that be right? My DP does from his relationship with his DF (no twins involved, but clash of personalities). He told me again and again before we had DC that he wouldn't be like that, because that's what made him and his DF not get on. Guess what.....?!

He has no understanding really of the fact that toddlers are not 'small adults' but have their own needs and emotions. I've tried to explain that actually they're more like teenagers and can't be 'managed' but he just doesn't get it.

If he is still against you contacting the HV then you can go to the GP or there are many drop in clinics which don't involve either, that's how I got DTS1 referred for his hearing.

Sorry, no miracle ideas there but I wanted you to know you're not alone!!

Is there anyone you trust or are involved with at church who could help out occasionally? Even just to provide an extra pair of hands during a park trip, so you could spend a bit more time with your DD?

Well if your DH not emotionally good with DTS, then it sounds as though all that side of things is landing on you and that's a lot to deal with. You definitely need more support.

Could you perhaps tackle this in other ways...

• both attend parenting classes so he 'gets' it
• would he respond to intellectual approach; buy him some childhood early development books or parenting theory books?
• do you have the means to buy in some "mother's help" ie part-time nanny/local teenager/au pair who could take over some of the practical bits, giving you more time with the one to one?

Could it be that she’s really bright and gets bored easily- my dd loved at that age, the thinking skills seemed to really calm her down in a way a good run around in the park didn’t . This might be worth reading too esp for your DH , Raising your Spirited Child

The author is Mary Kurcinka and there is a website too : parentchildhelp.com/.

Hi OP, firstly , you are doing an excellent job of parenting here. And I am impressed with your patience and understanding around your husband's behaviour with the twins. I think his attitude regarding the HV needs to change .
Do you have a local Children's Centre ? If so, you would get help and support there and may be given a Family Worker . This person would phone or visit and support you. I think your GP and
/or HV could arrange this too.
I see you also attend church, perhaps your husband could be encouraged to support you by your church leader or a member ?

Reading about PDA when Dd was 3yo was a lightbulb moment for me. Massively defiant, a real loner with a couple of very special friends. She was no ‘bother’ until the day she turned 3, I was pregnant with dd4 and it was so difficult to manage.

She’s now 10 and in y6. It’s been a very difficult time, but she was diagnosed with ASD at 7yo. Maybe read up on it. I always hate suggesting ASD here, but if you’re in crisis (as we were and still often are) there may be an underlying reason.