How is a 50/50 residency arrangement for the children? Warning, distressing content

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I have no experience myself but I work with troubled teens and have long felt it must be hard for children to have no full time home.

I've recent worked on the fringes of a project looking at the possible reasons for and solutions to a spike in teen suicides in our county.

No conclusions have been drawn, one of the things that has been interesting is that these very sad cases seem have very little in common. Some were high performers at school, some weren't. Some were socially excluded, some were very popular. Some were talented in music, art or sport,some weren't. Some had previously spoken to someone about suicide, some hadn't. Some had recently experienced the end of their own romantic relationships or suffered a bereavement in their extended family. Only about half had current MH referrals.

The only two things common to all the cases we looked at were a history of self harm (although for some this was very historic and not current) and they all had parents who lived separately. All had two parents who were still very much involved and whom the children were splitting their time between.

The sample is small (12, although also far too large ) and obviously there are many more children who live this way and don't take their own lives, but there was some suggestion that the conflict and divided loyalty these children felt may have been a contributing factor.

Traditional wisdom seems to be that parents who seperate but continue to co-parent are doing the best for their children, but what is your experience of the way children cope with two homes and involved but separate parents?

I think as an adult it would cause me great anxiety to have two different homes that I spent equal time in. I think that would make me feel greatly unsettled. I don't see how that arrangement would feel any better for a child.

there was some suggestion that the conflict and divided loyalty these children felt
There is research out there about the damaging impact of conflict and divided loyalty. There is also research that shows that post-separation, having both parents actively involved is a positive thing.

I grew up living with one parent. That was bad for me - the arrangement was stable I suppose but my parent wasn’t and so the healing that could have come from spending significant amounts of time with my other, healthy parent never happened.

My own children have a 50/50 arrangement. It works well. It isn’t without fault but our children have strong relationships with us both, we co-parent effectively and the children know we are happy that they love their other parent. We consciously avoid situations where torn loyalties arise and address them directly and positively when they do.

OTOH, my husband’s ex has been entirely resistant to their children being involved with him. The children are traumatised by it. They have a “stable home” with her but the conflict and divided loyalty is hugely distressing.

There isn’t nearly enough psychological support for separating parents and their children. There isn’t nearly enough understanding about mental health, suicide and what contributes. The way society is set up currently is actively making the situation worse. The studies of intergenerational trauma hold huge clues for us.

Interesting, but how did these parents get to the point of 50/50? Was there a protracted legal process? Maybe that could be related.

I do wonder, though, how children handle splitting their time like this. If one of the two houses doesn't truly feel like home it must be difficult to spend half the week there.

I think the problem is there is not a one fits all approach.

Parents asking for 50/50 care when they have not been fully involved in the care of the children is damaging. Some parents are wanting 50/50 to avoid maintenance.

For some though both parents have been far more emotionally involved than in previous generations.

My Ds hasn’t seen his dad since he was 3 . Is that damaging yes but far less damaging than his abusive dad been involved in his life.

I asked for support for my Ds when he didn’t see his dad any more . The support service had shut down due to spending cuts

A sample of 12 is not big enough for your speculation to be considered credible.

Where I so your control group?

I've often wondered about the MH link with spending long hours in childcare from an early age. Plus wrap around care.

This is purely anecdotal here and taking me and my friend as something of a case study.

Myself and my best friend have known each other since we were three, grew up together etc. Our parents also divorced within a year of each other.

Both sets of parents co-parented.

My friends mental health has been in tatters ever since. Mine took a pretty big bump but is now fine (in fact I'm probably the most content I've ever been, and a draconian secondary school was the major trigger for my mh problems).

We are both 28 now and were around 10/11 at the time of the divorces.

The difference between the two sets of parents, from my perspective and with hindsight is this:

My parents - there was no cheating or step parents involved that I was aware of as a child. My parents both genuinely get along, are great friends and think very similarly. The narrative I was given was that they still like each other, perhaps even loved each other but just weren't compatible living together. So there was really no need to choose between them. It was as though they were like friends in school who couldn't sit next to each other in class because it just didn't work, but still played at playtime.
I never heard any shouting or arguments. The home I grew up was never sold and I didn't have to move as such. My mum bought a new house near a better secondary school, I commuted to primary school in year 6 (my mum drove me there) so no upheaval there.

My dad kept the first house and all my stuff etc, I spent every Friday Saturday and Sunday night there. Weekdays at my mum's.

This whole setup wasn't a big change either really due to their working patterns. My mum worked weekend night shifts as a nurse and my dad worked away(other side of the pennines) mon-friday.

So between my parents being civil, not sniping at each other, weaponising me etc, the upheaval for me as a child was minimal.

I later found out that it was a combination of my father's weed habit and my mum cheating with a colleague that kicked it all off. But that was much later, and incrementally so it was much easier to get my head around. I was shielded from that as a child and I think that's quite an important factor.

They were also quite happy to take me on days out etc together and managed to get along perfectly well (in fact they have got along better since they divorced. They regularly go to concerts together now and are good friends)

My friend on the other hand -

There was cheating involved that her and her siblings were aware of from the start. The narrative of their father abandoning them and their mother for a woman who openly disliked them was peddled to them. Their step mother also treated far worse than her own children. Even I as a relative outsider thought she was unpleasant.

They also heard the arguments before the split. Lost their childhood home etc.

Her parents did 'co-parent' but mostly for the sake of the children, and the toxic atmosphere whenever they were both in the same room was palpable. They clearly didn't want to be anywhere near each other, which I think is where feelings of split loyalty came from.
Her parents openly despise each other and regularly put down the other.
The three siblings were effectively simultaneously rejected by their father and became a crutch for their heartbroken mother.

The patterns of seeing the parents changed quite dramatically too as their mum had been a sahm and their father a retired army officer, so they saw much less of them. There was a lot more upheaval for them, and they were less shielded from the reality of why their parents split.

So despite both sets of parents 'co-parenting' and sharing custody without a court battle on either side, the behaviour of the two sets were markedly different, and thus the mh of me and my friend.

There isn’t nearly enough psychological support for separating parents and their children.
This is very true

Where I so your control group?

Does that mean you can't ever look at suicide risks in teenagers? Because you certainly can't randomly assign them to no contact with a parent. Correlation is all you have, surely.

And if 100% of a group have one thing in common, even if that group is small, it's worth examining.

I was 18 when my parents split. My Dad was the calming factor in the home, so when he left, myself and my mother never got on. Plus she continuously berated my Dad in my presence and tried her damndest to get me to hate him. Therefore, that didn't feel like home.
My Dad left to be with another woman. She wasn't the homely type, and was quite cold, hence, there didn't feel like home either.
Consequently I felt homeless for want of a better word. Lost maybe.
Around that time I also started attempting suicide.
I can't imagine what it's like for younger children, particularly where the parents work against each other rather than pull together.

It's an interesting finding.

And if 100% of a group have one thing in common, even if that group is small, it's worth examining.

Bloody carefully - “It proves nothing about causation. It's all circumstantial: I'm sure you could find 12 children who hate Harry Potter, or have a missing toe, and have measles virus in their gut. That would prove nothing about MMR and hating Harry Potter, or missing toes. And children were starting to talk, or not, at about 18 months, for millennia before MMR was even dreamt of.” - www.theguardian.com/education/2003/dec/11/science.highereducation

My son spends half his time with me and half his time with his dad. He also spends time in wraparound care.
I certainly hope he is happy. He definitely seems happy and contented. His life at his dad's can be a bit unstable sometimes, but his time with me is stable and I have remained in the family home. I have encouraged him to be very open with me about his feelings and to always be able to tell me he if something is bothering him.
I sincerely hope that my decision to split up from his father, who was abusive and controlling towards me, won't lead him to eventual suicide. Thinking about this has made me very sad indeed.

ifstudies.org/blog/10-surprising-findings-on-shared-parenting-after-divorce-or-separation

Bloody carefully

Absolutely. Spurious Correlations lives in my bathroom!

But it is worth examining.

I think I'd want to first look more into the divorces and co-parenting, in part because of of what the poster above highlighted with her friend. I'm not so sure that'd be easy though. The pain of child suicide must be literally unbearable and to question whether grieving parents' accounts of their divorce and ongoing relationship played a part probably wouldn't even get past an ethics board!

But there are questions. Adults' ideas of everything being fine aren't necessarily the same as children's.

My husband and I are in a protracted and relatively amicable divorce. We opted to do bird-nesting. That's where the family home stayed the children's home and we rotated in and out every few days. In the end we've not got to that point yet, but we have been UNIVERSALLY met with the same response from adults: but that won't be a nice way for you to live, you need somewhere that you can call home. I totally agree. But for me my children have more of a right to that than I do. It's not for every relationship post divorce (we have no cheating, just lack of compatibility) and in the end we may not do it. But I think that while sometimes children switching between homes really the best option, in no situation is it the ideal situation.

I'm not sure about the link to suicide. But I think it's fair to say that nobody would choose to live in two houses equally, with two routines, two sets of rules, two sets of meals etc.

I find it almost incredible that all 12 cases have 50/50 care arrangements. This would be highly unique. This is not the normal default arrangement for care, and suggests something 'odd' going on in the family courts in this area that is different than elsewhere.

In other words, you may have clustering, but not for the reasons you think. Perhaps this area has judges very keen to maintain contact with abusive parents. That would be a more likely explanation than the 'fact' of 50/50 care (which as I say is not the norm, so to find it in this group, even if it 'contributed' to suicide, would be highly atypical and you are unlikely to find such a strong relationship between these variables elsewhere).

For people reading and feeling sad and stressed (me too!) I think we need to remember that it's rare for someone to die by suicide for one single reason. There are usually multiple things going on.

While things like moving homes or wraparound care may increase stress levels in kids, we can be certain they don't CAUSE suicide, or there'd be a massive drop in national population in teenage years - and there simply isn't.

with two routines, two sets of rules, two sets of meals etc.

Co-parenting would seek to make these as similar as possible. Parallel parenting would be where there is no regard for the parenting that goes on in the other house.

Also - children do spend time in different places with different rules all the time. Rules and routines at home are likely to be different to those at school, at the childminders, at extracurricular activities, on play dates or with grandparents or other relatives. I think the key is perhaps consistency, respect of rules and routines between houses (not slagging off what mum does at her house or implying that dad’s way of parenting is insufficient etc).

It wasn't intended to be scientific research. It was led by the schools, who often feel they are blamed because of the pressure on children today and wanted too investigate how they could avoid that.

What's was found is that some of these children has been pushed as gifted children but that most has ticked along through school without issue and without much in the way of warning signs in most cases.

So, no, no control group but I'd suggest you'd be hard pressed to choose a random group of 12 teens and find they were all living part time with both separated parents.

There's obviously loads of work to do here and this was really only intended to explore what schools could/should have done to support these children. All the local schools are doing loads of work around MH first aid atm.

They didnt all have 50/50 Orchid, they all had arrangements where they spent significant time with both parents.

but that most has ticked along through school without issue and without much in the way of warning signs in most cases.

Children don’t always show the warning signs in ways we’d expect. We praise compliance, for example, but that can be a warning sign.

Quite MissMalice, the schools were looking for things they "should" have spotted and based on current advice to them, these were very few.

The control group wouldn't be random nor should it be. A randomised study isn't a study design that would be even remotely appropriate here. But they could used matched pairs for a control group taking from other 50:50 kids. How does that rate of suicide compare with the national average for that group? For each sex? How does it compare against the suicide rate for all children who have experienced a divorce? For those who have a 50:50 custody arrangement? Those are the questions to start with anyway....if the schools or anyone else for that matter wants to draw meaningful conclusions then it's going to take a hell of a lot more than finding one commonality and pinning everything on that.

That's not what they've done Iggity, I said no conclusions have been drawn.

I asked the question from personal interest because as a PP said, I think I'd find it a stressful way to live now, let alone when goin g through all the other things adolescence throws at you.