Won't poo in toilet

[TraceyP]

My dd is 3 years 3 months old, has been completely dry for 8 months and uses the loo for weeing, but won't use it to poo. She's not constipated, it doesn't hurt, she's not frightened of the loo, she's in complete control of her poo and knows that it belongs in the loo -but will only do it in a nappy, at one particular time of day, and in one particular place. We tried sitting her on the loo at "poo time" but she reckons she can't do it, has a nappy on then poos in it in about 10 seconds. We've tried bribery, getting cross, and we're now (on the advice on the health visitor) completely ignoring it in the hope that not paying the problem any attention will cure it - and it hasn't!!

Any advice gratefully received!

Had similar probs with my dd about having to poo on the potty even though she'd been potty trained for 14 months! Decided enough was enough and made the decision to get rid of all the potty's so that if they weren't around then she'd eventually have to use the toilet. Had a bit of stress when she needed a poo, ran around etc and a bit distressed but hooray it worked!!! If she has to have nappies to poo in then can you not remove the nappies to omit the problem....it would have to come out sometime!!!

Chinchilla - incentives aren't working - she's been promised a particular game she wants, and there's a large jar of chocs on the loo window. They've been there for weeks and no interest. Stickers haven't worked either. As we still use nappies at night time I can't really remove the nappies, either. And I can't even get her to stand in the bathroom with a nappy on, it has to be one particular place every time.

I'm so sorry...there must be an answer somewhere, but I'm not experienced enough to know it. There must be another MNer who can help. Hope you find an answer soon, other than strapping her to the loo!

Not sure if this is any help Tracey, but a friend of mine has a ds who similarly would only poo in a nappy. Anyway, he got a stomach bug (unbeknownst to his parents) and was "caught out" whilst visiting a friends' house and had to poo in their loo very quickly. Having done it once, he never looked back and was quite happy to do it in the loo at home!

You're right, there must be an answer somewhere,but I'm b*ggered if I can find it. The tummy bug thing's interesting, Miaou - perhaps I'll stop cleaning the kitchen and see what she picks up

Bleugh!

Yeah,I know - the whole thing's lovely, isn't it!

If you took away the poo time nappy she would just hold onto the poo till she was in bed in her night time nappy. It's worse if she does it once asleep because it's a nightmare to change or you don't even realise and when you come to it in the morning it's gross!
Maybe the best thing is to wait till she's dry at night. Once she has the confidence to stay dry at night without the nappy she might decide she doesn't need it as much as she thought she did for the day.

I think you're right again, BooMama. I think I'm going to let it lie for a while and see how she goes with getting dry overnight (although there's no sign of that being anytime soon). I think I've become too focused on this, probably because she's so good in every other respect and this is the only area in which we've had any difficulty with her. I'm also hoping that now she's at nursery school for 5 afternoons a week, she'll realise that other children use the toilet to poo as well as to wee, and may want to do so herself.

Nursery might just be the thing that works for her. If she's starting nursery for the first time now is probably not the best time to try to introduce anything different at home. I'd just keep things as she knows it for a while. Hopefully she'll just decide to take matters into her own hands and use the loo. If not I'd just ignore it for the time being and wait a couple of months then see about getting her dry at night first.
When I think about the months and months of upset we had over my ds and the loo it is all our anguish (for want of a better word!) over it rather than the awkwardness of his habits that I remember now. She will get through this eventually so don't be too hard on yourselves whilst you're going through it.

Thanks for the advice, BooMama, I do appreciate it. She started nursery for just a couple of afternoons a week in May, so is quite settled and happy there (first day there, runs straight in, turns round to me from across the room, says "Why are you still here? Off you go, Mummy"). I just thought that the more she's there, the more chance of seeing what other kids do and not wanting to be the "baby". Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, I had no idea that this was so common a problem - don't feel quite such an inadequate Mummy now!

TraceyP

You've had a lot of good advice so far but can I chuck my ten penneth in?

What you are describing is quite common. Some children ask for the nappy and others will poo in strange places in the house and so it could be worse. Try not to worry too much and remember that at the end of the day she will stop.

IMO you should keep your response as low key as you can when your daughter behaves in this way. If you make an issue out of it either by telling her its okay or telling her off you will be giving her attention for it and in so doing reinforcing the unwanted behaviour one way or another.

Obviously you don't want her to hold it in and becoming constipated as then pooing will become painful and then she will be quite justified in not wanting to do it.

It's probably worth trying a reward scheme as has already been suggested. This will reinforce the behaviour you want. The stickers sound like a good idea. Usually it is best to reward the aspects of behaviour that she has some degree of control over. I would suggest that you concentrate on giving stars when she does as you ask. Try to avoid removing stars when she does not co-operate otherwise you will have a problem if she declines to co-operate when she has none left.

I would suggest that you start off by rewarding her with a sticker just for sitting on the loo for a few minutes (eg 5 minutes) and, don't laugh, blowing a whistle or harmonica. The reason that I'm suggesting this is that it is (a) a distration and (b) it will make her relax her pelvic floor and make it more difficult for her to hold in any wee or poo. You may very well that if you catch her at the right time she will not be able to hold it in and the problem is overcome. In this situation still reward with a sticker to reinforce her success and you could carry on with the whistle for as long as she wants to. A whistle is small enough to take out with you and it doesn't matter if she whistles on the loo does it?

If you do this for a week or two and she is still waiting to poo in the nappy then you could tell her that from now on she will only get a sticker if she poos in the toilet. You may also need to change the reward at this point to keep her interested.

Obviously throughout this you need to make sure that she is taking plenty of fluids and fibre so that she does not get constipated.

Going to nursery should also help. The peer pressure usually makes children want to conform. They do not want to behave differently in front of their friends.

Good luck and please let us know how you get on.

Thank you Cuckoo! I think you're right, it's been mentioned before about it being a control thing and so we're not even mentioning using the loo at the moment. I'm going to give it a couple more weeks of being completely non-interested in how or where she poos and then we might try the stickers thing as an incentive - we've tried some incentive stuff before, as I said, but we haven't tried stickers. I won't remove stickers for non-compliance as that's giving attention once again for behaviour we don't want to encourage.

I'm really intruiged about the whistle idea! Where did you come across that one? Dh did find once, when dd was struggling to poo in her nappy, that making her laugh allowed her to release, so to speak, so I can see that using the whistle might do the same thing. Perhaps I'll get my clarinet out - if the distraction of the noise doesn't do the trick, perhaps her laughing at my playing might!

I've not red the whole of this thread but am having the same problem with ds. He was 3 in August and has been dry for about 9 months. But he'll only poo in his pants or in a nappy. Like you we've tried bribery, anything from sweets right up to a big expensive toy but it doesn't work. We treid the nicely , nicely approach and even now we've tried getting angry but nothiong is getting through to him. I'm at my wits end now.

Sometimes it just seems they have a real mental block about it, doesn't it. We know that dd has complete control over her pooing and it's so frustrating that she choses to control it the wrong way! I have read books, trawled the internet, spoken to other mums and health visitors, and nothing seems to work. No matter how we approach the problem with dd it all just seems to go in one ear and out the other. I'm trying to step right back from it all at the moment, give us all a bit of breathing space.

I feel so drained by it all. THere's not even a particular time that he does it. So when we go out you can't enjoy yourself for fear that he's going to poo his pants!!!!

TraceyP - I think you approaching things the right way by deciding to leave it just now. I had a very long time of struggiling with my first DS and it caused no amaount of grief to him and me. He ended up with-holding from doing a poo and ended up neediing medication for constipation. He is now a very healthy 17 year old with no poo problems now

I think this will not resolve itself till you get her out her night-time nappies and I would concentrate on that first. If she has been dry all day for 8 months then she is probably capable of being dry at night.
It is most likely that her nappy is sodden in the morning because it is there and she uses it. I have 4 children and I never once waited for the dry nappy in the morning as a sign they were ready to stop wearing one. I just told them that they would no longer be needing a nappy at night so stopped putting one on. There were the odd accidents but a plastic sheet on the bed sorted that. Once she is going day and night without a nappy (I would let her have one for poos) she will decide she doesn't need one for a poo. She will come round. Do you let her see you on the toilet doing a poo? That can help too.

that reminded me of my dd, who stands by with the paper and tries to help me wipe!!

Ooooh yes! She's seen me poo (you have no shame when you have kids), she even flushes it away for me. We flush the poo from her nappies too, just to reinforce that that's where they go. We decided to try pull ups for night time and althopugh sometimes she'll get up in the night for a wee, I don't think she's often waking up when she wees so is probably not quite ready yet.

But strangely being dry at night doesn't bother me as much as the pooing - because the pooing thing is deliberate and the night time wetness isn't.

The wetness could be deliberate though TracyP. She may well wake up dry and use her nappy because it is there. I am sure that is what my kids did. That is why I am suggesting get rid of the nappy at night. She may think, it's alight to wee in the morning, so why not to poo! I know it is a long shot but I think that getting rid of the nappy will then lead onto poos in the toilet. She will be less inclined to ask for a nappy when she doesn't wear one at any other time IYSWM?

Agree with you Traceyp, being wet at night really doesn't bother me. I can't ever see ds being dry at night. He often wakes in the morning with his nappy that wet it's leaking. I've been known to put 2 dissposable on him at times!!!!

I don't know, Mears. She does try at night, and when she wakes up in the morning the first thing she does is go to the loo - and is so proud of herself when she does use the potty or the loo at night. I'm pretty sure that the night time stuff is not deliberate. The nappies have certainly got less wet over the last week, so perhaps it's time to try anyway [nervous smile]

Go on - sounds as though she is capable of it

I must admit when I first took mine out of night time nappies I did put them on the potty before I went to bed for a while. They usually always did produce something. I really would concentrate on that one and leave the poos alone.

Hi it's me again. DS2 is pooing most of the time in the loo now and was 4 on Saturday. His nappies are still wet at night and he has the 'odd' poo in the night but we're not worried.
How's it going with your dd traceyP? I was talking to a friend of mine about this and she said children get really stressed about it as it feels strange to have something leaving their body and that's why nappies and pants are prefered for a while. I'd never thought about that before?