Has anyone not let their teenager get a smart phone

[jttf]

Hi,

Has anyone held firm and not let their teenager get a smart phone?

I'm a teacher and we've banned them completely from site and it has made the children happier, friendlier and better behaved.

With my little one fast approaching the age when she'll start demanding a phone, I'm very tempted to put my foot down and say no. I'm not your friend, I'm your parent and I think this is better for you.

Has anyone held out and been successful?

OK, Cosmoa. You know it all then about teens and parenting them then. Crack on and good luck!

Ifnotnow - its the kids passing on the old phones, not the parents! The parents of the kids who give them and the parents of the kids who receive them do not know they have them. The children are not stupid!

Really Cosmoa? You don't remember talking about who had been on Top of the Pops, what was happening in Grange Hill, asking who shot JR, watching Live Aid and discussing it for months afterwards, wondering what the Christmas movie might be, talking about The Young Ones, recreating scenes from the Young Ones in the school lunch hour, you didn't discuss the Olympics, the football or any other major sporting activity that had been televised.

You and your friends didn't refer to any of the culturally significant things that you would have watched on TV or seen in magazines when you got together?!

Maybe you don't remember any of these things because they were part of your every day life and not something you were excluded from.

Kids nowadays do the things I referred to above via social media. By denying them access, they are excluded from all of those fun aspects of being a teenager and finding out what kind of things they like and who are the other people who like similar things. My DC have done the funniest spoofs of things that they've seen on social media with their friends, they've made movies using their phones to submit to their school twitter feeds, they've sent movies or photos into Young Enterprise, DofE, sports clubs etc that have usually been created in collaboration with friends. They arrange meet ups and get togethers via their smart phones. They're not at home on their own staring at their phones in isolation, they are connected in a fun way with their peers and all the world around them.

@BitOutOfPractice I may not know everything about teens these days but don't forget.. I was one myself, so I'm not completely clueless. There were dangers I ran into on the internet but luckily I avoided because my computer was in the kitchen with my parents around. I had a friend who spoke to some very questionable people though.. Won't go into that too much.

And then you have my partners little sister who is only 12 (18 year age gap between them) and posts things like "mate or date" on her story. Even with all the parental blocks you can still not avoid the nudes and crap kids can come across. And then never mind just the teenagers... Kids aren't safe either cause you have the kids YouTube channel where sickos make things like peppa pig into sadistic episodes with sounds of childreb screaming whilst a dentists rips teeth out.

I'm not obvious so don't be so patronising.

The technology is not the issue, it is what you do with it that matters. Banning it doesn't equip a child to deal with issues, it just postpones the problem and adds in other problems.

I find talking to my teenagers is really useful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Engage with them, chat to them, have a laugh about the really fucking stupid things that other children do like put "mate or date" on their instagram profile!!!!!! And while we're having the laugh, I get them to explain to me why that is so stupid and then I know they won't do it themselves.

I despair sometimes that people think the only solution is banning something rather than having a conversation.

Honestly no... Me and my friends didn't watch much TV or discuss it. We probably found other things more interesting. We spent most of our time together listening to music or watching films and going to concerts. We were always at each others houses, at least 2-3 times a week and went to the park after school very regularly.

Also I was 1 of 4 so I didn't get much chance to use the phone, TV or the computer because someone else was usually using it. I spent a lot of time practising singing, dancing in my room and doing arts and crafts. Or I would play with mine and my sisters hair, I loved that! I watched TV now and then and went on the computer sometimes but it was by far my favorite thing to do and I wasn't that interested.

Last time we had this thread, I mentioned the parents' eSafety workshop that my DC's school held. The analogy they used was this:

You want to buy a house by a lake. Do you:

A) Chuck your children straight in the water.
B) Teach them to swim.
C) Not buy the house.

Cosmoa your answer seems to be C.

I suspect we are wasting the skin on our typing fingers PhilomenaButterfly.

I am sure you can tell that I'm the kind of parent that would talk to my child about everything. No need to despair.

I've had enough screen time myself now for today. And we're clearly not going to see eye to eye so I'm out!

The final thing I shall say is that there are a thousand reasons why she won't be getting a smartphone.

But I'm sure after the lovely life I give her, she's not going to look back on it thinking "I've almost had a great life, but it would have been so much better and complete if I had a smart phone before I turned 16"

My DS got a smart phone when he was 14. He is not on any social media, his friends roll their eyes but are used to it, he no longer cares or feels he is missing out. Most of his friends had them age 11 and were straight on social media. We stood firm. If his friends want him they email or text him. He is now the only one not on social media in his year group at school. He has a couple of games on it (Dragon-vale is one). Does he miss out on gossip and party invitations, probably yes. He went out for pizza with a girl in his year group the other week, she said she had 2,000 Instagram messages when she came back from a two week holiday in the summer. She was horrified and overwhelmed. I don't know if that is even possible (not on social media either ), I said surely you mean 200 but he insists she said 2,000?! Anyway I digress. DS now thinks the dumb phones are hilarious and so cheap, he is talking about getting one from Aldi. Maybe they are about to be cool?

DD 12 has an iPad (school one), no phone of any sort, no social media. If she wants to play a game on CBBC or Lego she uses my laptop. My DH is very techy but like me distrusts social media. We are a very happy, chilled out house.

Hold firm is my advice. I always tell mine they will one day be 18 and all these decisions will then be up to them. Until then they are children and our job is to keep them healthy in mind and body. You may be unpopular for a few weeks of course.

Ifnotnow - its the kids passing on the old phones, not the parents!
Haha! Oh Thank God, I was outraged at that!
I do think they should have phones but not really any need to worry about kids not knowing how to use touchscreens
Mine has to do the McDonald's ordering ones for me-I can't stand them. Children now start jabbing at pc screens because they are so used to touchscreen!
Maybe SM is more of an issue with girls?My ds friends text on their phones a little and chat over x box, but it's the girls who seem to be all over insta. Some of them since being 10/11 , and there's really no need for that.
I remember knowing some very middle class children who weren't allowed to watch ITV and I felt sorry for them at the time. I'm sure it hasn't massively affected their lives though

Not having equipment to easily access instagram / snapchat etc puts a teenager at a huge social disadvantage

I'm sorry but that is an absolute load of rubbish. If my child was at a social disadvantage for not having a smart phone, she would need to make new friends that actually live in the real world and outside of their social media bubble... She's not having a phone until she's finished year 11

Mine has plenty of real world friends and does not live in a social media bubble. Her schoolfriends use group messaging - Snapchat, Instagram and WhatsApp - to communicate and make plans as well as discuss schoolwork and group projects. If she didn't have those apps, she would be excluded from their conversations and decision-making and left out of outings unless someone bothered to call her to let her know.
Sensible use of smartphones enhances life in many ways. I don't see that it's massively different to the hours and hours I spent clogging up the house phone to my mates when I was her age. It's important for teenagers to feel connected to people outside the home and family - it's part of growing up.

PhilomenaButterfly the house on the lake is a really good analogy. B is my answer.

I’ve been the kid who didn’t get the cool stuff, I was already odd and different and it made it worse. So my eldest has a second hand iPhone (DPs old one) and a condition of him having it is letting us monitor what he’s doing.

Letting a kid have unsupervised access to the internet is as dangerous as letting them play chicken on a motorway.

11yr old DS has just started secondary school without a smart phone. He wasn't keen but he's dreadful with screens and I didn't want him having another one.
So far, no problems at all. Not a grumble from him. it was different in august.

The school have come down hard on phones this year and they're not allowed to be turned on during the school day. So no one ever sees his ancient brick and his close mates who he walks with don't bat an eyelid at it.

I should say, DS1 doesn’t take his phone to school.

Cosmoa I can say, hand on heart, that if you think that not allowing your child a smart phone will enable you to hold back the tide of popular culture and SM and all that that entails, you really are on a King Canute style hiding to nothing.

As a parent of two very delightful engaged and happy teens (18 and 15yo DDs) and a social media professional myself, your very best bet is to educate, instruct and enable your kids to use SM and the online wisely, safely and enjoyably (because SM and the internet can also be tremendous forces for good!) than trying to ban it.

will also say that observing your DP's sister and having been one yourself, is entirely different from being the parent of one! It really is!

The school have come down hard on phones this year and they're not allowed to be turned on during the school day.

See, that's all I want. Just, a break from it all when they are at school. Ds and some of his friends tell me that half the school is sat on their phones all lunchbreak. There not much RL communicating going on there. Ds doesn't get his out because its not a swanky enough phone (I cant afford a posh phone myself so he's not bloody getting one!).

France has banned under 15s from using mobile phones at school.

www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/45401501

Our secondary school expect the kids to have a phone. The teacher often tells the kids to photograph homework instructions from the whiteboard and ask the kids to use their phones for research.

Personally I wouldn't mind a ban like in France.

I agree with you by the way regarding SM BitOutofPractice, but I have to say I find a lot of parents breathakingly naive when it comes to their teens use of their phones and sm, and dont realise how much these kids are putting about themseves (and of themselves) online, and just how many strangers they are "connecting" with. You have to be a lot more vigilant than I had ever thought!
Teens are lovely but also, sometimes, no matter how many times you tell them the rules, utter dingbats.Well, mine is.

IfNotNowThenWhen1 I agree and to my mind it is negligent parenting not to instruct your children about the internet in all its forms. It is exactly like letting them get into a car and drive off without any form of instruction or guidance. They can harm themselves and others.

Mine have made mistakes online but they were small and very easily rectified because I was on it with them. They've made mistakes in the classroom and the playground too - that's what children do, they make mistakes and learn from them. However, I think if you keep the dialogue open and start young and in an age appropriate way, then they assimilate the 'rules of engagement' almost without realising it.

This is so weird to me. I think I'm conveniently the right age to have grown up with smart phones and social media.

I get left out of stuff by family for not having WhatsApp 😂 I think teenagers are probably worse. A dumb phone didn't stand out when I was at secondary and eventually you could get a cheap android touchscreen phone so they really didn't stand out.

I had a (2nd hand) Sony Ericsson Walkman W800 as my first phone when I was at the end of year six, it didn't come to primary school with me (the tamagotchis did ), so and dumb phone. I got a Nokia 5800 (new, their first touchscreen phone) a couple years later, then a HTC desire (new) maybe a year or two later (contract phones). I think I had a iPhone 3GS, 4 & 5 as hand me downs after that. My dad loves tech so that helped but I didn't always have the best/latest. I have a 7 plus (2nd hand, eBay) now and I think that's all the phones I've ever had.

I was in yr7 when the first iPhone was released. I knew one spoilt kid who got the 2nd gen the next year.

I got Facebook when I turned 13 because theme the rules, lists of my friends had it before which sucked for me for a bit but wasn't too bad.

I was in yr10 when instagram was released, I remember the fuss around it but couldn't be bothered with it (only go it a year ago).

Phones eventually became helpful in school because I struggled with note taking so recording a teacher dictating and photographing the board was the only way I was going to get the info down.

I don't think young kids should be on social media and their internet use should be monitored. Mine wasn't really (own PC in my room since I was...6? it didn't always have internet, I don't think, it was for games) but I did eventually go to sites I shouldn't have and chat to strangers on the internet for amusement (as well as MSNing my friends, it was that or hog the landline). I did learn a lot though which was good as I knew that the shit kids told me at school was BS plus talking to my parents about some stuff never happened.

I'm a long way off dealing with this but I imagine my kids will have a tablet for home use, games and stuff from young and then just get cheaper phones as first ones when they start going places without me and then my cast offs when they can be trusted and I will monitor the use (I'm aware I got round parental controls a lot though)

Love the lake analogy, and the earnest certainty of those with very small children about how they will parent teenagers.
It's all about parenting. It's part of the job to teach them life skills. Do you not let them cook a meal because sharp knives are dangerous? No you show them how to use a knife and then you supervise.
My DC were probably among the first generation to grow up with social media. They had access, rules and parameters and lots of supervision and monitoring from me.

YeTalk, well, I hope that would be most parents' answer. My DC have tablets and play Roblox. They know not to friend anyone they don't know in RL, although DS2 still needs supervising very closely, nor to give out personal information when chatting. One of DS2's friends uses his real name as his gamertag, I'm wondering whether I should tell his mum.

PhilomenaButterfly I would, it shows she maybe doesn’t really understand the “rules” of children being online. DS1 is the same, he needs reminding (we have a list of dos and don’ts that’s taped to his wall) and he leaves his room door open so we can hear what he’s saying/who he’s talking to.

Like your DS it’s only people he knows in RL that he engages with, and he’s always told me if anyone tries to add him that he doesn’t know. We keep an eye on all his devices and would rather teach him the safest/best ways to engage online than keep him totally in the dark. That would make him more vulnerable I would worry.