smacking children in lips for swearing

[firelady]

Hello all, I have a child with tourette, ocd, odd adhd and anxiety disorder. I recently have been allowing a counselor in my home weekly to advise me on how to be a better parent. Last week I spent about 45 minutes on the floor in the store with my son who spit, hit and swore the entire time. I outlasted him, he gave up and calmed down. Again the other day we went in the store and he started again. This time, instead or restraining him I thought of another tactic. Every time he called me another name, I smacked his lips. It only took 4 times. He straightened up immediately. That is not the kicker. I explained this to the counselor and she advised me that if I ever touched him again she would have to file a protective Service compaint on me. I think this is absurd since I did not act out of anger or stress just thought I just went on gut instinct.
just one note, I was abused as a child and anyone who knows me knows that hitting, smacking, spanking is usually my last choice in discipline.

So you smacked him out of tourettes, ocd, odd and adhd, not not mention anxiety disorder?

You should write a book.

My god, corporal punishment is the answer! There would be no disorders if only parents hit their kids more.

firelady - I only hope you're a troll because if not I really feel for your poor son. Even with comparitively limited knowledge of the conditions you were describing I know that they are deep rooted disorders that have physical and neurological causes and cannot be 'cured' just by hitting the child!!! As a mother your 'gut instinct' should be to protect, care for and nuture your child, and I don't see how smacking him on the lips or anything else for a behaviour that is not his choice and that he is almost certainly NOT in control of would help one tiny bit.

Quite bluntly you should be disgusted with yourself - either for making a very bad decision in your parenting or for being an idiotic troll with more IT skills than brains.

If your story is real, you should feel lucky you had an understanding counsellor as if I'd been the counsellor I'd have contacted SS without even warning you.

My first reaction on reading your message firelady was "oh my god" followed by sharp intake of breath. Do not expect any sympathy or support for your actions on here.

How will smacking him help his anxiety disorder?

Firelady, welcome to Mumsnet. Have you been on here before or is this your first time. I hope you are genuine because sometimes people we call "trolls" ie wierdos post on here and it's really upsetting for genuine posters. If you are genuine, then you need help. IMO what you did was wrong and is an insult to all SN mumsnetters who I'm sure at times (as have we all) wanted to smack our kids. I have and do smack mine, but none of them are SN and to be honest, it's more of a failure on my part than their behaviour. My kids all swear like troopers and think it's funny to stick various fingers up in the air pretending to swear whilst in the back of the car. Your son has major problems and should be getting help, not walloped. If you are genuine, keep in touch. If not, we'll spot you and just P.>S Off!!!

eek! I can understand why you wrote this Wobblyknicks as I too agree that smacking a child who can't help it isn't nice, however, imagine being in that situation yourself (I do not know what it is like because I do not have to encounter my ds doing this to me) how would you react to hearing your precious bundle of joy abusing you with his tongue in this way....I do not what I would do....but you know I would notchastise this poor woman who has obviously come onto mumsnet for some moral support and not to hear how she is wicked because she dare to try to stop her son doing something which let's face it, is not nice...I know smacking isn't good...but what else should she do send him to the checkout with a sharp slap or say go to the checkouts until you can stop this....sounds like her son wouldn't respond to this....sorry to be harsh but it's so easy to dish out the holier than though atitude when it isn't you ecperiencing the swearing...she is just trying to stop her son surely and a smack on the lips...well I'm sorry but I have smacked my children before although I do not anymore ....if she'd wanted this kind of comment then she would not have opened up to us (it's not easy to admit to the failings in being a less then perfect parent)....God forbid if you ever have a problem that doesn't paint a rosey picture of you....I hope you receive a better response than the one you posted this poor woman (blunt of me....but true!!)

Well said Lavender1 !

lavender - do me a favour and if you don't like my posts ignore them and I'll do the same for you.

We're not talking about a normal naughty boy here - her son has serious disorders that even an adult couldn't control so how the hell can a little boy be expected to? If an adult has tourette's and swears people understand and make allowances - MORE allowances should be made for a child not LESS!!!

To be totally honest I think I do have the right to be holier than thou in this case - I'm not perfect and god knows if I was in the same situation I might find myself doing the same thing - I hope like anything that I wouldn't but accept that I might BUT the difference is that I wouldn't come on here expecting everyone to agree with my behaviour and tell me how wrong my counsellor was like firelady seems to be. I'd come on here disgusted with myself expecting to be told to get help - in fact I'd be too busy looking into help for myself to post about it on MN!!!

Sorry if this makes me sound like a saint, thats the last thing I am but I'm not as shocked by firelady's behaviour to her son as I am by her attitude about it now - that's what I'm REALLY shocked about - the fact she thinks she's in the right to do that.

I don't quite understand how you can smack a child on the lips!!
I too think that if you are genuine then you DO need serious help! I can't imagine being in that situation but to be honest, i think SS should be involved if you have reached the point of beleiving that smacking can stop him!
I do hope you get the help you need for you and your son!

Don't really know how to respond to this one. Firelady, are you for real? If you are, what do you mean by smacking on the lips? I can't really envisage it...

mumsnet is about trying to pass on your wisdom to someone who might be in need of it.....a lot of threads have had slighly differing opinions and that's part and parcel of this site.....if you don't want someone to disagree with you ever then you shouldn't post on here because it's only human nature to not always agree with someone and mumsnet is real life enough imho (didn't mean to offend you Wobblyknicks but I do think you should be able to take a little disagreement from time to time really)....must be very frustrating having a child with this disorder btw...don't know how I would cope with that (thanks smellymelly for not thinking I was talking goobledegook)

Lavender I agree with you if Firelady is for real, but I'm not sure whether she's just a wind up. It sounds a bit sarcastic what she's saying ("allowing a counsellor...to advise me on how to be a better parent".

Apologies if you are for real Firelady, but you do sound like you might not be...

Sorry don't know how the smiley got there

I have to say I am very shocked Firelady.
I don't have much knowledge of any of the disorders you have mentioned, but like others have said, I can't see how you are helping him by smacking his lips.
If it has gotten to this point then i think you really may need Ss help as you obviously cannot cope.

I am quite amazed at how calm your post is.

Coulod you come back and perhaps explain more clearly what you mean by 'smacking his lips' ??

I suppose you could mean that you placed your hand to his mouth, but i have a feeling thats not what you mean at all.

Friday night first ever post..

Slightly different tack.

I don't doubt that what you did, Firelady, did work this time, and I can also understand how it felt like a relief and a breakthrough, so much so that you told your counselor.

The point though is that it is pretty much guaranteed NOT to go on working ... if pure aversion therapy were the solution to problems like your son's - well - life would be different. And if you try to go on using that approach, you would very soon get into the kind of escalation your counselor is worried about: next time you will find your son hitting back, or defying you to hit harder, and you will find yourself somewhere you cannot get back from. Please try to put the smacking behind you as a one-off; and I am sure that if you need any help with ideas for longterm discipline there are many people here who can be of genuine help.

Firelady - I'm not sure if your post is genuine but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. When your son was diagnosed with these conditions were you given any information about them? Have you had time to do any personal research or joined any local support groups? With Tourettes the person has little or no control over their 'compulsion'. Smacking them, however well-intentioned, will not cure it. ODD is again something that cannot be managed by smacking. The child is not being 'naughty'. I know just how extreme meltdowns can be but IMHO your counsellor is right when she tells you that smacking is the wrong approach to take.

Apart from anything else, I am confused as to what exactly the point of the post is in the first place. Anyone who has experience whatsoever of any of these conditions (and most people who don't) would know this is unbelievably inappropriate behaviour.

Firelady, if you're for real, you need to get some help (which MN can help you with if you come back and explain things to us a bit further).

If you're a troll, you simply need to get a life.

lavender - I didn't mean that people shouldn't disagree with me - I meant that I don't want to have an argument/disagreement/discussion about this with you personally. I agree that having a child with these disorders must be frustrating but that does not excuse certain behaviours AND attitudes about them. I don't know how I'd deal with it either but I know what would NOT be acceptable and I wouldn't expect sympathy or agreement if I crossed the line.

I've said what I wanted to say and am happy to discuss it, just personally don't wish to discuss it with you lavender, but as for now will leave this subject alone as I don't think I've got anything constructive to add, don't want to have a long argument when firelady may even just be a troll and need to pack for the summer party!!

thanks and have a fab time at the summer party

My next door neighour has tourettes (33 yrs old), he is now a heroin junkie the bain of our F**cking lives, his dad (who as a wealthy man threw money at the issues and bought him an expensive classy flat) pops by every week with food for him, we seen him being raided here by cops every 2 weeks.
If only his parents too more responsibility and placed him within proper care, instead of inflicting this person onto an innocent community.
Tourettes needs medication, it is essential that it is properly monitored or your child will fall out of society.
If you are genuine, then you need expert help as early as you can get it.
Honestly my other neighbour attempted suicide last year after losing his job through lack of sleep and depression caused by our neighbour with Tourettes and then his associated problems.
Honestly I can understand how challenging a child with these conditions can be, there are other ways, seek them out...

I've finally realised why Firelady's original post sounded so familiar, despite this being her first post on MN. By a remarkable coincidence it is almost a complete amalgamation of a thread on another site which started off as a discussion about whether or not autism was really a "middle class naughty boy syndrome". From there the thread went into a discussion of whether other conditions were also over-diagnosed (all coincidentally appearing in Firelady's post) and whether parents should instead be taught about better parenting (starting to sound familiar yet?). Finally someone made a comment along the lines of "Well if a smack in the mouth stops them swearing then it's obviously not Tourettes, is it?".

And to think I gave them the benefit of the doubt......

Here goes,
Yes this is a true and factfull story.
For those who really want to give some advice and guidance I want to hear for those who are not willing to understand please please mind your own business.
I read the responses of many, As I agree that the choice of the smack in the lips was not appropriate, I am sure a true and honest person admits they are not a perfect parent otherwise we would never want to learn or need to learn more.
LETTING A COUNSELOR INTO MY HOME... was so invasive. Who really enjoys being criticized?
I opened up to it. I get critiqued twice a week. But I let her back each week. I want my family healthy.
"to advise me on how to be a better parent" ALL I CAN SAY TO THAT IS wouldn't you want to be a better parent. I dont allow her in to make me a good parent. I believe that we are all better parents than we think. That being said let me tell you what happened and how I was advised to perform my parenting skills.
My son was placed on BLACKOUT. this is staying in room with no priveleges, no tv, no toys, NOTHING.
wednesday august 25 I stayed home the entire day. He knew of blackout we watched a video on the subject.
from 10 am untill 6 pm I heard nothing but vulgarity, yelling spitting. I left a bed in the room and a blanket, he tore the bed apart. So then he had only a mattress. He pulled the drawers to the dresser out and smashed them.
all day I never yelled, or said anything except please return to your room. HE DID.
for those who think this is a lie just as the couselor and my husband and relatives did, I TAPED THE ENTIRE DAY. He called me everything but a white lady. My husband had previousely commented since my son never did this around anyone else (true tourettes is uncontrollable).
these are not all neurological. THESE ARE LEARNED BEHAVIORS, GOD WILLING OUR CHILDREN DO NOT TURN OUT LIKE ALL OF US. That is all I want for my kids to be Happy, and Healthy, I want them to be in healthy relationships and not have to go through this. GOD DO WE KNOW WHAT OUR PARENTS DID TO US OR WHAT WE DO TO OUR KIDS.
If you want to learn or advise please talk to me
my email is [email protected]

POINT OF THE LAST COMMENT, HE IS LEARNING
HE GOES TO THE CORNER WHEN TOLD HE GOES TO THE ROOM. HE ONLY DOES THIS TO ME. MY DAUGHTER DOES EVERYTHING. I RAISED THEM THE EXACT SAME WAY.
DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW BADLY IT HURTS TO BE SCREAMED AT AND TOLD YOUR A PEICE OF , CALLED A FU BI, FAT A, ALL OF THIS BY YOUR PARENT AND THEN BY YOUR CHILD.
I NEVER EVER EVER WOULD DARE TO CALL MY CHILD A NAME. I WOULD NEVER DEGRADE HIM OR HER.
WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO TOLERATE BEING TOLD OF OH HE MAY HAVE ODD, OCD TOURETTE, ADHD. WHAT IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS HAVE I PAID FOR TO FIND OUT MAYBE THIS IS WHAT IT IS, NO I DECIDED ON MY OWN TO FIX THIS, AND FOR THOSE WHO CAN CRITICISE AND THROW STONES I WILL AND NOT WITH YOUR HELP BUT WITH THE OTHERS HELP.
THANK YOU.
PS THE LAST 2 DAYS HAVE BEEN WONDERFUL, YEAH I DONT THINK IT IS TOURETTES OR ODD OR OCD OR ANYTHING ELSE I JUST WAS NOT BEING THE BEST PARENT I ALLOWED HIM TO TREAT ME THIS WAY CAUSE I DID NOT KNOW OR BELIEVE I DESERVED ANYTHING ELSE.

You must Know wether he has any of the conditions you mentioned?