How do I talk to my sister in law about my niece?

[TruffleServices]

They usually live on the other side of the world - they're here for a visit. My brother and sister-in law have one DD and one DS.

I really get on with my sister in law and I'm actually closer to her than to my brother. However, I feel that enough people stick their noses in and tell parents in general what they should and shouldn't be doing when it's the parents' choice. However, I did study a lot of child development in my psychology degree and attachment theory (albeit in adults) was crucial to my final year research project.

I think my niece has an avoidant attachment to my sister-in law. My sister-in law visited her parents with her DS for a week. My niece didn't ask after her mummy once in that week of separation. Not to me, not to my brother and not to my mother. This struck me and my mum as quite odd. I have noticed quite a few things my sister in law does 'in order to promote independence' I don't think they have promoted independence I think they have just taught my niece to internalise her feelings/ not outwardly show pain to her mum as she knows her mum won't console her.

Additionally, my sister in law sees a naughty little girl who is very rough with other children. I see a little girl who is acts out in order to get attention and who is unresponsive to other's emotional needs (I know a large degree of this is also her age but my sister has a DD the same age and they are so different in this regard) because her own are ignored. She was actually really well behaved for me for the week my sister in law left and started acting up on her return (but then was well behaved again when she was left soley in my care)

I am also worried about the constant use of the word naughty. Even though with avoidant attachment style there tends to be a positive view of self (and negative view of others) I feel that she might internalise that label. When I knocked something over by mistake my niece's first reaction was 'you're such a naughty girl auntie truffle' mimicking how her parents talk to her (not differentiating accidents and when they give her confusing instructions e.g one meal time she was playing with her food a bit and my brother came over and directly asked her 'Are you being naughty?' and when she started to answer he then chastised her for talking with food in her mouth)

I don't want to over step my mark and make it a big deal or appear to criticise my brother or my sister in law but equally I'd feel bad not to say anything when I'm sure it comes from lack of knowledge on the subject rather than lack of caring. I have thought of maybe giving her a book on attachment theory and just say this is something I find interesting. My nephew actually appears to be securely attached but she has regarded him as a 'good baby' and I think finds it easier to be responsive to him. I could also casually mention that the word 'naughty' is banned in the UK in most nurseries and schools and explain why.

What do you all think? Or is there another approach? Or should I just ignore my concerns?

Do you have any children yourself?

They are all very different. Even at the same ages.

My nephew is appallingly behaved when his parents and brother are there. Partly down to parenting style, partly his personality.

He was beautifully behaved staying with my Mum for a week, partly because she is very firm but partly because there was no competition. He got to chose what to eat where to go, what to do. He didn’t have to compete with his sibling or with other demands on his parents time.

Children are complicated. You can’t read them like a book.

You may have some good points, you may be mistaken. However if you aren’t a parent yourself I can pretty much guarantee that you will cause offence.

PS I would disagree that the use of the word naughty was largely banned in the U.K.

If my child is naughty, i will call them naughty whether it is "banned' or not. I think nurseries and schools are ridiculous when it comes to not using the word

The reason why it is banned - especially if you call them naughty rather than the action that they shouldn't be doing - is because instead of thinking what they are doing is bad they think they are bad and 'naughty' not just when they are doing something wrong but all the time and develop a negative self image/ a negative label for themselves. It also actually increases the frequency and extent of bad behaviour because people tend to live up to the expectations of others, even more so their parents and teachers (Pygmalion effect).

I don't have a child myself but I worked as a nanny after graduating before my current job in the education sector (so I still have a lot of direct contact with children just older children and a lot of children with SEN/ mental health difficulties - the eventual goal is to qualify as an educational psychologist).

I really don't want to cause offence though - my sister in law is a great mum she's just very misguided about independence. Creating secure attachment is really important as this style tends to be consistent from 'cradle to grave' unless something major intervenes. That's why I am struggling to hold my tongue on this one as it won't just greatly impact on my niece in the present- it creates an internal working model that could make relationships challenging for the rest of her life.

You need to tread very carefully. Everything you've described could also indicate a spectrum condition. Have you considered that?

But out. Seriously.

How's your DN'so attachment to her father OP?

How old is your niece?

I’d you had an actual clue you’d know that it’s proven that children behave worse for their main career/the person she feels safest with. So if DN started acting up when her mum came home it’s because she feels safest with her and knows that her Mum will love her even when she is being at her worst. She acts well behaved for you because she isn’t sure about that with you.

My DD is nearly, earlier this year I went away for 5 days. She didn’t ask for me once, and we do attachment parent she co-slept until 2.3 and still does now If she wakes up. It’s not that unusual.

If and carer 🤦‍♀️

Alternatively she didn't ask after her DM as she is a secure little girl who knew where her mum was and that she would come back. And like all children was enjoying living in the moment.

Keep out unless you are asked for advice.

Did she ask after your brother, or did he stay with her? How does he view your niece's behaviour? I'm not sure the odd snapshot when they are out of usual surroundings is ideal to make any judgements or theorise upon.

I don't have a child myself but I worked as a nanny after graduating before my current job in the education sector (so I still have a lot of direct contact with children just older children and a lot of children with SEN/ mental health difficulties - the eventual goal is to qualify as an educational psychologist).

Oh FFS. You're aware that this is in no way your business, right?? Butt out.

However, I did study a lot of child development in my psychology degree and attachment theory (albeit in adults) was crucial to my final year research project.

So then you're aware that "diagnosing" people that have not come to you specifically for treatment is frowned upon, right?

I really don't want to cause offence though - my sister in law is a great mum she's just very misguided about independence.

In your opinion. Not your "professional" opinion, but simply your opinion.

That's why I am struggling to hold my tongue on this one

Try harder. Seriously. You are way out of line on this.

If I was your SIL and found out you'd posted this, "faux-assessed" my child, and made these kind of comments, I'd pack up and leave immediately and cut all contact. Then I would be considering contacting whatever ethics board you report to.

You have no business making any type of clinical assessment. And if you counter that valid argument with a feeble "but I'm a professional" comment, then I will point out that if this was a professional assessment, then you'd be in big trouble sharing it on bloody MN.

You are quite the piece of work. I only hope that in the years to come that you gain some maturity and look back at this and are embarrassed by this.

I think there is a very distinct difference between being a nanny and having a degree compared to actually being a parent. You're making a snap judgement based off a very small snapshot of their relationship. I think you need to mind your own and let them parent their child.

I presume you are genuinely trying to be helpful, but honestly that comes across as extraordinarily judgemental and sanctimonious. If I have read this right you are basing your attachment theory on your final year undergraduate dissertation and you are not at this point close to being a qualified Ed Psych? If so please gain some more experience of real children and real families before offering this sort of advice to strangers let alone people you want a life long relationship with.
As to naughty being banned - I am a teacher where on earth is it banned (I am presuming some excruciatingly 'woke' establishments in major cities??)

Oh my goodness what a thread! I usually tend to support the OP if they get harsh replies, but this is ridiculous. OP, you are way out of line with your comments. An undergrad and a nanny job does not give your opinion weight or substinance. 'Naughty' is not a banned word. The little girl most likely feel very secure in her relationship with her mum hence not asking. Maybe wait until SIL asks for your valuable parental advice.

Please don’t say anything especially as you usually live far apart so it may be harder to make amends when they kick off at you.
I feel your thinking comes from a really lovely place but don’t voice it .

With respect being a Nanny, even a very good Nanny, is nothing whatsoever like being a parent.

You haven’t given specifics but being an independent child isn’t a bad thing and doesn’t mean they don’t have a good bond with their parents. Encouraging your child to dress themselves, wash themselves, entertain themselves, cope with change or parental absence isn’t a bad thing.

Be careful about saying the mother “views” her children as x, y or z.

What I might say about my D.C. in casual conversation to a family member I rarely see is not at all the same as the deep, complex understanding of my children’s needs and characters.

@TruffleServices

The reason why it is banned - especially if you call them naughty rather than the action that they shouldn't be doing - is because instead of thinking what they are doing is bad they think they are bad and 'naughty' not just when they are doing something wrong but all the time and develop a negative self image/ a negative label for themselves. It also actually increases the frequency and extent of bad behaviour because people tend to live up to the expectations of others, even more so their parents and teachers (Pygmalion effect).

that is a load of rubbish! I was called naughty as a child when i was naughty, and i don't have a negative self image of myself.

You don't have children so you have no idea and shoupd not say anything to your SIL

My nephew'snursery say 'unkind hands' if he hits somebody...what on earth does that mean, hands can't be unkind! I won't be sending my LO there.

You sound very pompous and very misguided. Your 'diagnosis' is worthless. I'm not sure you even understand what you're taking about. Do you have professional training? It doesn't sound like it. Keep your thoughts to yourself.

It sounds like you've read a few books and married a hypothesis. Perhaps your intentions are kind but your actions would only be construed as sanctimonious and misguided.

If this child has an attachment disorder, it will be picked up on by professionals, not armchair hobbyists.

Are you a qualified Educational Psychologist?

Keep your beak out and stop analysing people. We did attachment theory in a level psychology and used to try and 'diagnose' people thinking we were clever. We were just teenage arseholes who knew nothing about the real world

I would like to input as i have had done similar reading and been nanny and now have own child, not having child doeant automatically make what your saying invaild as "you dont understand". Since having a child i belive that even more. And it really annoys me people think this. Also making observations is not a bad thing and its clear you want the best for your family. But as its family i would tread carefully as it can be taken badly, as parents wont want to be seen as being criticised in their parenting. I also agree completely with use of word naughty and how addressing behaviour and not child is so important. I also dont use it and have asked my husband not to use it when talking to our daughter.

**You don't have children so you have no idea and shoupd not say anything to your SIL

So when u have a child do you automatically have an idea??