When MIL goes near the baby

[Choccheese]

I hated it whenever MIL went near DC1 as a baby. She was always criticising and advising and always seemed way too over invested in her role as grandmother, expecting sleep overs far too soon etc. DC1 is now 5 and MILs relationship with her doesnt bother me at all. She still tries to advise etc but it all goes straight over my head.

I have recently however given birth to DC2 and those feelings are creeping in again, despite me feeling so much calmer this time and MIL being much more discreet than last time. I actually hate MIL being anywhere near her and I'm pretty sure she's being a pain again but at a lower level.

• If she's holding the baby and I ask for her back to feed her, she'll stand rocking her an extra 30 seconds whilst shes screaming for me before handing her over.

-making remarks about 'what a shame' it is that I have to feed her myself and don't get a break (due to BF)

• Yesterday she was pushing her in the pram and I said that she needed feeding as she was crying. "Again?!" She said whilst trying to shove a dummy in her mouth as if she knew best and as if indicating that she couldn't possibly be hungry.

-I will be changing her and smiling and cooing at her and MIL will basically stand above me cooing more loudly. -She indicates there is an issue with her poo and wee (I'm not sure if this is a dig at BF) as she says her wee is "stronger than you expect" and her poo is "always running out of the sides and a funny colour." All however is normal.

She has said how "great" she thinks I'm doing with the BF but I can't help but feel she's making some discreet digs.

She gives me the creeps whenever she's holding my baby, I just hate it and she's so over-powering. As soon as she holds her, I can't wait to have her back again.

Am I being too sensitive?

toyoungtodie I am afraid you're just bashing your head against a brick wall here.

On this thread and others (a particularly long one is running at the moment) there is a core of posters who believe that every mil is a bad person and what is more should be eliminated from the "family unit". But not their own mothers, of course.

I was no fan of my mil. No fan at all. But I tolerated her and was polite. I agree with you, unless someone is genuinely nasty, what purpose does it serve to wage a war in which the dh and indeed dcs are miserably caught in no man's land?

I understand how you feel . I still feel panicked at memory of MIL refusing to give me back my screaming new born and denying that he was hungry. She also accused me of taking her grandson away from her when I had to BF him.

With hindsight I would have had a word and told her how it made me feel. I don’t know if it would have stopped her, but at least I’d have given her a chance to stop rather than letting my frustration escalate to the point where I didn’t want to be near her. Is your MIL likely to back off if she realises that she’s overstepping?

Zzz I have many many friends who are around the same age as me and are MiLs with sons. We are a mixed bunch, but mainly University educated caring women. There are certainly no ogres amongst us, or as some Mumsnetters have described MiLs as, cunts.
One of them was denied access to her grandson for years until her DiL matured and now she apparently loves going on holiday with her. My dear friend never found out what she did. I suspect she didn’t do much. She suffered terribly as it was her only son and only grandchild.
I know you are not a MiL zzzz because of what you have written. Please disabuse me if I am wrong.
I am not saying that there are no awful MiLs because there certainly are.
However, if both sides are willing, then the relationship is in with a chance. Telling the post as you suggested, to say to her MIL “ if she didn’t give the baby back, then she wouldn’t get to hold it again, is very confrontational.
Whose to say the Mil is always wrong anyway? We are experienced women and have done what you are doing ( several times in some cases) before. Why not listen ?
If you went into hospital to have your tonsils out you would require someone to have done it before.
I wonder at the scorn and ridicule poured upon experienced child rearing women, because they are called MiLs
I certainly felt I knew better how to quiet my newly born GD when she was being held loosely by my Sil and screaming her head off. I don’t think that Mumsnetters realise that a screaming baby physically affects their MiLs and their Mothers. I had to leave the room in order not to say anything. Eventually my dear SIL had to leave for work and had to hand her over. I practically heard the baby sigh as I swaddled her and rocked her. In seconds she was asleep. I love my sons in law deeply but watching them with their newborns was comical.....but I shut up and backed off, but it hurt.
Swaddling was out at the time and so was rocking.
Rocking because you might spoil the baby ( duh) and swaddling because of supposedly affecting their limbs. As my boys grew up to be hulking Rugby players I feel sure they were affected by my swaddling them, not

I always lay the babies on their backs though because of the danger of cot death, although the jury ( I think ) is still out on that one.
I come from a medical family and fashion regarding child rearing changes, but some ideas have always been ridiculous.

@tooyoungtodie the jury really isn't out on back sleeping fyi.

I think there is a need to be assertive and firm with anyone who is prioritising their own feelings/enjoyment of a baby over the babies needs - withholding a baby who needs feeding is ridiculous and I don't think this needs "an empathetic" response. Giving advice (that's asked for) is fine, but undermining feeding choices and crowding mum is not. That's not peculiar to mil's and of course it feels more acute when the baby is young because of your hormones and decisions just somehow feel more significant.

In the op situation I would be firm and clear. So when she doesn't hand baby over I would say "you're upsetting the baby and me, give him/her back" and honestly I would limit visits if she doesn't stop.

If you went into hospital to have your tonsils out you would require someone to have done it before.

That is a truly ridiculous analogy. You would never be expected to take out your own tonsils. I think I recognise your writing style from gransnet. There seem to be lots of estranged MILs there who are determined to believe themselves in the wrong. It's always 'a mountain out of a molehill' and 'of course there are difficult women out there but we're not one of them'. I feel sad about it because it is often obvious from the post just how and why you are incredibly difficult to have feeding into an adult relationship and capable parents. But I don't post because I know you don't want to know.

You're wrong about the jury being out re: sleeping on the back. This is the problem. Grandparents think they remember and they assume that they know...but the reality is they are unlikely to have spent the last year gleaning the most recent research into these issues...and their 'comical' children often have. Also, each parent is a parent to their children at a particular stage for a short period of time. So you might think you know 'all there is to know' about the newborn stage but you are actually remembering say, 3 months of your life, 30 years ago. Relative to new parents who have often gone to NCT classes, helped care for friends babies in the recent past, listened to their midwife/properly informed health visitor and are gaining hours and hours of recent experience of that particular baby with every day that goes by, you don't have much of an edge at all, if any. And before you sneer at fads and fashions, look at the falling mortality rate from cot deaths.

The other problem is that you don't know how much your babies conformed to type or how specific your advice was - I thought I knew a lot about 'babies' until I had another and realised that things I had thought were universal truths actually only work for some babies.

On a personal level, you adopt a tone of restrained diplomat while admitting that you found your sons 'comical' with their babies - not one particular thing, but just their whole parenting thing is described as 'comical'. You think they didn't know? You think you're fooling anyone that you're more mature because you've got a few extra years on the clock?

The fact is, you will also have made mistakes like the 'holding loosely' error when you first had a baby. You will have soon realised what needed improvement and done it. So now you remember yourself as always having swaddled your babies. But actually you're no different. Whatever mistakes you made first, you need to see how 'comical' you also must have been. Otherwise you're being unpleasantly sneery. Being unpleasantly sneery is toxic and the last thing a young new mother wants to find in the MIL, even if she does think she's heroically holding it in. You know, there are women out there who are nice enough not to cherish these memories of their sons and DILs being buffoons. You need to think about why you like to remember it.

The back to sleep campaign reduced cor death mortality by 81%. So no, the jury’s back in, had delivered a verdict, headed home and is now having dinner with its family...

tooyoung

You've rather brilliantly illustrated the kind of dilemma facing so many DILs. They listen to this crap advice, know it's wrong, look at their baby and think 'I've always tried to please this woman but dammit, my baby is too young to die....'

Thankyou to those who have given good advice 👍.
I think assertiveness is key. I am usually v assertive with MIL, a lesson I'd learned with DC1 but I seem to have forgotten my mojo through the haze of sleep deprivation. Thankyou for reminding me to use it.

Nice play on words heart.
And relieved to see better grammar.

ZZZZZ Oh, come on. All you had to do is to agree gracefully that you are not a MiL and so therefore, you are not giving advice based upon your own experience. Now you are being sarcastic.

Wow, heatsease, to assume that somehow my generation are not capable of keeping up with current research Is a tad patronising and smacks of ageism. As though we can’t read and use technology ably and have somehow lost our cognitive ability to comment on changes we have observed during a lifetime. You discount experience then as being an important part of learning?

However, I didn’t mean to appear to sneer at my children, who I love dearly, but aren’t most people who attempt something for the first time ocassionally comical ? No doubt you are absolutely right that I was. Anyway I will take your criticism on board and mull it over before my mind goes entirely. ( now I am being sarcastic)

On the subject of Sid, ( almost-there15) the position has undoubtably improved but there have always been other factors considered, along side the ‘back sleeping position’ Despite its importance there are still deaths. I think approximately 200 last year.
40 years ago most Mothers bottle fed. Since then has been an allout NHS campaign to stress the Importance of breastfeeding. There must be a relationship between the absorption of colostrum in breast milk, Unfortunately we still have one of the lowest rates of breast feeding in Europe.
The Incorrect mixture of bottle feed was on the suspect list at one point and also smoking in the mother.

The advice is now also for a baby to sleep in the room with its parents for six months.
Also weaning advice has changed. Very early weaning was a possible link.
There has also been some important research on air quality and pollutants and then there is the relationship between SID and genetic pre disposition. .
Babies still die despite all the improvements being applied.

A solution hopefully will be found soon, as to lose a child is a utter heartbreak.

So you can't admit you're wrong, tooyoung. Interesting.

Despite its importance there are still deaths.

You've clearly just done a hasty google. Why oh why would you minimise the importance of placing the baby on her back on a public forum by saying there are also other factors which can contribute to cot death which was a point no one was arguing? It still remains true that since this advice was introduced the mortality rate has fallen. The jury is not out on that and well you know it. If you were my MIL I would hate to listen to your slapdash, reckless blethering.

aren’t most people who attempt something for the first time ocassionally comical

Yes. But why point it out unless you want to undermine them at your expense, even if its only in your own mind or to others? When my little DDs (and DSs for that matter) have children I cannot wait to see their earnest joy and anxious diligence turn into serene competence. That's the part I'll be looking at, pointing out and remembering.

If you're suggesting that most PILs research the way new parents tend to do (and are given access to such research by the NHS as new parents are), I can't take you seriously at all. Most of your generation do what you have done. They scoff at 'changing theories' (regardless of the general trajectory towards better outcomes!), hazard a guess in a knowing tone and say how they did it. They often seem to be pretty sure that's the entirety of what needs to be known because their children survived. But times have changed - children being brought up today are able to benefit from research that very few grandparents 'know better' than their children about. They're also requiring support through modern challenges that grandparents did not have to think about when parenting. I'm not saying there isn't a place for grandparents wisdom but I certainly wouldn't be ringing up my MIL to check the recent guidelines on when to wean and how to sleep etc. There is no earthly reason why I would.

at their expense

@toyoungtodie I don't think i said there weren't other factors but you've said the jury is out. As others have pointed out it is absolutely not and if you're giving that advice to people you're being really irresponsible. Of course we wrap up all our memories in nostalgia and rarely remember the things we did wrong. However, as guidelines change we should respect that and respond to them. No one is suggesting that experience isn't important, but it can't come at the expense of properly researched clinical advice. Just because you did something and it turned out fine doesn't make it ok.

Anyway this is derailing the thread some what (and I'm sure you're not handing out advice unsolicited because that would be pushy and inappropriate)

Op - good to uncover that backbone. I'll need to find mine soon enough.

I do exactly the same! As me and my partner have different back grounds our families have different traditions! I won't allow my daughter over there on her own as she is only 9 months old! But I don't trust her she's overpowering and rude, and always tried to put me down as a mother (I bite back) but I don't think you're being sensitive your the mum and follow your instincts! If she doesn't like it that's her problem

I found a sling helped as I just kept my baby strapped to me most of the time with just a 5 min cuddle with visitors. It is much harder to take a baby off you who is in the sling. Can you do nappy changes upstairs and ask MIL to entertain your older child or do changes in a bathroom and lock the door?

Heartsease I don’t think I am or did minimise the importance of putting a baby to sleep on its back. It’s obviously very important but there have also been other significant changes that have been contributed in trying to resolve the conundrum of SID.

I did go to the NCT as it was formed over 40 years ago. I was also a breastfeeding counsellor in the days when most women were bottle feeding. I knew then about the importance of colostrum absorption.
Isn’t your statement that I have made a quick ‘ google’ search about Sid sneering ? I know as much as any person about SiD ( except a research scientist, although they tend to research a particular angle) and have known about it for a long time.
I also don’t say anything to my children about their child rearing. I think thoughts but don’t speak. We are all on holiday together as I write, all at the instigation and invitation of the SILs and Dils. We are a Medical family and conversations have always centered around recent Scientific Research.
But now I am defending myself against your erroneous statements about me, and I don’t want to go there.

So my posts are silly and I am being a bit of a tit and I am rude. I also do quick ‘google ‘ searches ( despite being supposedly technologically challenged ) and I give dangerous advice ?
Well zzz and almost, neither of you are MiLs and yet you are are giving advice on here regarding a specific DiL/MiL problem......

When I said the jury is out, regarding putting a baby on its back to sleep, I haven't suggested anyone should do otherwise. I meant that it hasn’t been proved conclusively that it is the main and ONLY factor involved in solving the conundrum of Sid. Sadly, there are still approximately 200 deaths a year.
All my friends, who are PIls use the internet constantly and we read widely ( as I run a book club) and we discuss a range of serious topics. At the moment it is the very serious question of the NI border. Most people have no idea what lead to the partition of Ireland.
What we don’t do, is sit around discussing celebratory gossip, or watch pap such as ‘ love island’ glued to our iPhones whilst our grandchildren vainly try to attract our attention.
Anyway I am done, as I am on holiday and the little beauties are awake and want their Grandparents to get their breakfast. We are giving their parents a lie in.