Helping a toddler wind down before bed?

[graysor]

Bath time / bedtime is a daily nightmare with dd (2.5).

I pick her up from nursery at 5.30 so we’re home by 5.45. She’s already had dinner so we just have an hour or so to hang out together before bedtime. I aim to have her bathed and in bed by 7.30, although very rarely achieve this!

Part of the problem is that she seems so wired that she’s running around at 100 miles an hour. And it takes an age to negotiate every single step on the way to bedtime. E.g. getting upstairs, getting undressed, getting in the bath, getting out of the bath, brushing teeth, etc etc...

Sometimes we can have a really nice quiet read together downstairs for 20 minutes. All nice and chilled out. But as soon as we come upstairs and I run the bath she’s racing around, jumping on the bed, hiding behind the curtains etc and getting herself all riled up again.

I try all the ‘how to talk so kids will listen’ approaches, to try and keep things playful but it feels like this is just stringing out the process even more? Not that it ever seems very effective on dd!

I’m feeling right at the end of my tether with this, and am worried how on earth I’ll manage when dc2 arrives in a few weeks time.

Does anyone have similar experiences? Any tips to get a quieter calmer bedtime?

Thanks!

Graysor - also to add, my son won’t follow any of the guidelines from the how to talk book (or any of the others I’ve tried...)

Aromatherapy bath oil designed for children by Johnson's helps one little one I babysit, he's a live wire. I think it's got lavender in

My DS 3 year old is in bed for 7.30pm goes to sleep straight away he gets washed at 6pm, quiet time starts at 6.45pm, he doesn’t nap most days so easily falls asleep for me, when his dad is around it’s a different story as he runs wild and gets extremely over tired and starts having mood swings with me due to me trying to get him into bed rather than playing with toys with his daddy late at night, sometimes it’s a nightmare any advice would be appreciated

Summer days - so glad to hear someone else is failing entirely with the how to talk techniques!
Dd is completely resistant. Make it a race? She just says no, and carries on with what she was doing. Offer a choice? Both options met with a defiant no. Act silly /make it a game. She just shouts at me to stop doing that!

Graysor. I’ve tried it all... 2 choices, explaining what is going to happen next, ‘naming the feeling’, being silly etc etc etc. Nothing works! He is going through the terrible twos big style at the moment! I heard so many good reviews of the book on here, but it just doesn’t work for us. Neither does calm parents happy kids! Might have to move onto Gina ford next... he’s so strong and fast that holding him down for nappy changes, carrying him up the stairs etc is just such hard work and at times dangerous.

Bath time can be a stimulus for some children. It's an exciting play time not a relaxing time.
I'd do bath as soon as you come home and then wind down after that. Playing gently and reading etc.

I would stop the negotiating. Its just making everything take longer. I tell my Dd it's time for a bath and she says goodnight to her Dad and goes upstairs. If she refused I wouldn't be negotiating I would just carry her up. Same with bath and teeth, it's getting done whether she likes it or not so there's no point fighting it. She will soon learn there's an easy way or a hard way.

I think I agree. If it’s not working the fun gentle way it’s fine for ‘your way or the highway’.

And if that means picking her up and carrying her upstairs so be it.

She has got to learn that it is more fun to cooperate with you than to mess about. I think ultimately that is a really important lesson.

When DS was nearly 3 he went through a phase of constantly running out of his room after bedtime. So that became something that you sit on the naughty step for and you don’t get any smiley happy fun mummy time once that silliness starts. Within a few days he did learn. Now perhaps once every 6 weeks or so he needs a reminder of that but generally he goes to bed on time, first time.

Summer days- I’m curious about what Gina has to say about toddlers too! I had a complete aversion to her at the baby stage. But given all this playful business isn’t getting us anywhere I wonder if it’s worth a go?!

Strawberry and apple - I think you’re right, I need to be harsher and just get on with it. Sometimes it really does feel impossible to force her ( not helped by me being 7 months pregnant, so wrestling with her is harder than ever).

The other day I just picked her up, carried her into the bathroom and went to put her in the bath. But she’s like a cat avoiding going into a travel box. She kicks her legs up, or stands on the sides of the bath and generally wriggles and thrashes around until I physically can’t hold her anymore.

Sorry your description of her trying to escape like a cat being bathed made me giggle. I do have a song and dance with Dd about washing her hair which she absolutely hates.

Being pregnant in this heat too I can see why you don't want the wrestling match.

Total sympathy on not wanting to wrestle pregnant and hot!

What are the usual consequences for bad behaviour during the day? Can you use these at bedtime? Treat bad behaviour for what it is- don’t accept it because ‘all kids are silly at bedtime’.

On thinking about it we don’t really have any normal consequences for bad behaviour . Just removing her from whatever situation.
Looks like our whole approach to behaviour needs a rethink.

We have exactly the same problem with DD who is nearly 3 - behind the curtains, jumping on beds, running around like a hooligan. The only thing we find that does work is if she doesn’t cooperate, and still doesn’t after a warning, is that we put her straight to bed (she’s still in a cot), lights off, door shut, goodnight. We give her a minute and after that she’ll generally do what’s being asked of her. We’ve recently started using naughty step/time out and she responds reasonably well. You could try a reward chart which works for some but my DD didn’t really give a shit!

It’s hard to judge when to make the transition between ‘baby, isn’t self aware enough to be naughty’ And ‘small child, taking the piss, needs dicipline’.

I guess everyone’s viewpoint on that is slightly different but if you’re at the end of your tether it sounds like it might be time.

Apple - I’m sure I’m guilty of babying her a bit, and no doubt some of the time she is definitely taking the piss when she’s mucking about. Any tips for good strategies, or books to read for guidance?

Dino - we’ve had a go with star charts, mainly to try and improve teeth brushing. But she completely lost interest within 2 days

We use-

• firm tone of voice
• naughty step

-removal from the place where the fun is happening (so quiet time with a book in an upstairs room not downstairs playing with cousins) -loss of next (as in immediately next) exciting ‘treat’ (usually framed as ‘because you were silly we have run out of time for X. By ‘treat’ I mean two stories instead of one, playing with the ‘good’ bath toys, or choosing to go to his favourite park over one closer to home etc... not dire punishments and confiscations!

I also use reward over slightly longer periods of time- so if you want to go to X this afternoon you’ll need to do y and z this morning- I bet you can! Etc... I do give a lot of chances for him to win the reward, I try to make it appear as though it’s more ‘at risk’ than it really is without (hopefully) making myself look weak/silly!

I don’t profess to be an expert but this is the stuff that ‘works’ (85% he’s still a kid!) with DS.

My DS1 2 year and 11 month year old was particularly hectic around bed time after dropping his nap too, it's hard work isn't it, especially while pregnant! I think it can be a bit of a difficult transition when they don't really need the nap but are very tired by bed time as it's a long day for them. I find DS1 doesn't really respond to the gentle approach when hectic, but also gets more hectic if I use a stern voice too! I usually aim to calmly give him options eg. 'you can walk upstairs or I'll carry you, I'll count to 3 and if I get to 3 and you're not walking I'm carrying you'. Always consistently follow through on what you've said when you get to 3 - DH doesn't and doesn't work for him, but works for me. If this is a new approach for your LO maybe expect some tantrums and resistance to start with, but when they see you're consistent and mean what you say they'll probably start 'choosing' to do what you want by the time you've counted to 2! I also use 'if we're not quick there might not be time for a bed time story, I'll count to 3 and if you're not doing X by the time we get to 3 there's no story' - I have had to put him to bed on one occasion with no story because of this, or also more positive 'if we do this quickly we'll have more time to spend on the bed time story together' - this also works and also feels better - on very hectic days I get really fed up of counting to 3 to keep things moving!
DS1 also goes through phases that it's difficult to brush his teeth, I find counting his turn to 10 and then my turn to 10 (slower for my turn!) helps to get him to hand the tooth brush over for my turn, he gets to choose what language we count in for the small number of languages I can count to 10 in (including gibberish which he finds hilarious). Also singing made up songs about brushing teeth to the tune of other songs or nursery rhymes has helped in the past to make it more fun for him so he co-operates.
I hope some of this is helpful!

What worked for me with all three, was story time was in bed, both of us lying there, being quiet listening and looking at story books. I loved that quiet time just us snuggled up in semi darkness reading.

Another thing that works for me if I'm feeling playful is to tell him that if he doesn't come and do something himself then mummy elephant will make him do it, mummy elephant tickles him with her trunk (my arm). He's not keen on being tickled so this usually works, and if not it's quite fun being mummy elephant! It gives a bit of variety from counting to 3!

Mummymummy - thanks, definitely some good strategies there I can try.

I will definitely persevere with the if you’re not walking upstairs by the time I count to 3 I’ll carry you. I do this sometimes, but not consistently so that could work.

Counting in different languages might appeal to dd too (she can do to 10 in English and Spanish), and I can muddle through a few others and might provide sufficient novelty as a distraction.

I’m a bit stumped on natural consequences I can use for when she’s messing about though. She’s not keen on being in the bath and rarely plays while in there ( Not from lack of effort or toys or suggestions from me) so threatening a short boring bath isn’t going to work as an incentive.

And at the moment I have to read to her in bed until she falls asleep ( this is a whole other battle that I’m not keen to fight right now). So I can’t tell her there won’t be time for stories, as I can’t follow through on that one at the moment!

Welshmist - that’s the end point we eventually reach. Snuggled down in the dark, reading. It’s getting to that point that’s the problem!

Reading in bed, get a timer, set it and say we have fifteen minutes or whatever. The gro clock a lot of people swear by.

www.johnlewis.com/gro-clock/p230928843?sku=230928843&s_kwcid=2dx92700027800954095&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjwyYHaBRDvARIsAHkAXcs8xPViG2fOnCcE0r6A1M8vgXHYkcns-WP2ciKXE5URu4V5xmDgfQMaAnFwEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Snuggling up reading is also the only part of our routine when DS1 actually does his relaxing for bedtime if he's hectic but fortunately he doesn't rely on it to sleep, I'm a bit stumped too if you can't use that as a consequence, as others have said could you maybe skip the bath and try a quick shower in the morning so at least it's one less step to get through? Is there anything you could introduce into the routine just before the story that your DD loves to do, like a favourite song to sing, that when it's established in the routine could then be used as a consequence? Slightly contrived but might be worth thinking about!!