doing without nappies???

[woozlekin]

I'm about to have my first baby and am getting lots of advice on the whole disposable nappy/washable nappy debate. I grew up in Africa, where most mums don't use nappies at all, but I don't have an experienced mum handy to consult on how this works in practice. (Certainly you never saw mums at home coverd in poo!) Is there anyone out there who knows how you manage, or is it impossible in Britain to do without nappies of some kind, maybe because of the climate?

Blimey, would never have even thought about not having nappies

I think I have heard in the US there are some who dont use nappies and manage to get their babies to toilet but they must never go anywhere to do it.

You could go with real nappies. The start up cost is quite expensive but in the long run, you'll save money on disposables and wipes plus you know your not damaging the enviroment.

If you google elimination communication you should be able to find some helpful sites (possibly some dodgy ones too though so it might be worth doing alone )

There are people that do it, but I think its probably helpful to have some cloth there for when you do need/want them.

If you buy a small load of a birth to potty nappy then it will get the wear at any age, rather than buying a pack of disps and then having grown out of them by the time you want to use them iysiwm.

Thanks for the advice - that's all really helpful I nearly choked on my cornflakes when I saw the wonderful phrase 'elimination communication' but having followed the Google links I see that it is basically what I was looking for. Interesting also to learn that even here in the west nappiies of any kind are quite a recent invention, and disposables very recent. I suppose I had thought that western cultures traditionally always used nappies just as African cultures traditionally go bare. It shows I wasn't really thinking about my initial question, or I would have known that human beings did not evolve in nappies . If I had stayed at home I do not think it would ever have occurred to me to use nappies, but here when every baby you meet is wrapped up, and everyone who sees my bump wants to know 'cloth or disposable?' it was turning into a real worry! I think I am still not picking up on the social signals though: if I do not nappy the baby will people think I am mistreating him?

I think in our culture this just wouldn't work.
It will take over your life, and make you practically housebound.

We EC our 8 month old DD. She wears cloth nappies when she sleeps/naps and trainer pants during the day. I known some ECing people use real pants or have a lot of naked time but that is not for us.

We started ECing when DD was 10 weeks old and wouldn't change anything now. If we were to have another baby we would EC from birth next time.

She has been clean (all poo in the potty) for months and is often dry (wee in potty). It is easier and quicker to clean up a wee/poo in a potty than do a full nappy change, and it results in less washing. I also feel more bonded to my DD and when we start to potty train in later years...she already knows where wee/poo should go, so I'm hoping it will be slightly easier for us.

Here are some EC links
Website Links
How we started to EC

HTH

Wow, that is fascinating

Surely it is really time consuming? I'd love to hear more about why you made the decision, and how you deal with it.

Hi Devil (love your name btw)

I thought the same as you until I tried it. It does work and I am not house bound.

In fact ECing is 10 times easier outside the house than it is at home. Not sure why but I think you focus more on your child when you are outside the home.

Thats very true, but how do you deal with it if you are on a bus say, or in a shop?

Quick story is that my daughter screamed everytime she soiled herself...doctor said she would get over it and she never did. So I held my daughter over a potty to wee...no screaming equals happy mummy.

I think her reaction stemed from her bad bleeding nappy rash she had when she was a newborn due to the bad birth we had and all the drugs I was given, gave her thrush and nappy rash which got infected blah blah blah.

But once you know that your child needs a wee, it seems daft to wait until they do it in a nappy and then clean it up after the fact.

That is why it takes no more time than nappy changes. I just start 5 minutes earlier and catch the wee in a potty and skip the nappy change, whilst you wait for the wee to happen and clean the baby, nappy and potentially clothes after the fact.

Wow! Big respect to you for doing this.
But what about when she is napping? do you just take the risk?
Also, with mine they always weed and/or pooed as they were feeding, and breastfeeding is hard enough without having to hover a potty under them surely!?

Babies have some bladder control...not cast iron adult control but they can hols wee for some time...i.e. They don;t leak all the time into a nappy...they hold it and then relax and wee.

When I go out, I potty DD before we leave and then I put her in a sling and go on the bus to the shop etc and she holds on until I get her to a toilet.

Babies won;t wee whilst being carried in a sling or whilst asleep (though they usually wee the moment they are put down/wake up) As long as you give them reasonable frequent potty time.

So when I think it is time for her to wee or if I see a suitable toilet. I'll take DD out of the sling, hold her over the toilet cue her to wee dry her bottom with paper and we are finished.

I also carry a foldable potty if there is no toilet near by and if all else fails and she wees...well we just do a nappy/trainer pant change...no problem.

Yes, tiny babies always wee/poo whilst feeding.

You can buy a EC pot which the baby can be placed on whilst you bf them. You hold the pot between your legs or alongside your thigh (depending on breastfeeding position)

It is meant to work well, but as I said we only started at 10 weeks and she had stopped doing wee/poo whilst nursing by this stage.

We use back up cloth nappies whilst DD sleeps.

There was a very striking photograph in the G2 part of the Guardian last Weds (15th May) illustrating an article on formula milk in Bangladesh. The photograph was of an 8 week baby whose mum was feeding him formula with a spoon, but who was bare-bottomed - so the mum was using a westernised model for one end of the digestive system but traditional for the other.

I am very interested to hear about nappy rash - again something new to me and something I need to learn about. Do any of the mums who use EC also encounter nappy rash?

Our DD had weeping blisters nappy rash whilst we used pampers (for the first three weeks of her life)...the rash improved and healed when we bought/used cloth nappies.

Since she was 10 weeks old and we started ECing we have never seen nappy rash.

I reckon it is because she has bottom free time every day, when she crawls around naked from the waist down.

Plus she never sits in a soiled nappy or trainer pant for longer than a minute (if we miss the potty), so her skin doesn't get the chance to get sore.

Thank you babieseverywhere! This is all very interesting and I am learning so much.

woozlekin

I am interested in how you saw Africian mums pottying their babies ?

Do they carry their children in shawls/slings ?

Do their babies wear any form of pants ?

Most babies don't usually wear anything special, except maybe a necklace for good luck . If western clothes are available they may wear a little t-shirt but nothing fitted on the lower half of the body at all. However, they will be folded in a cloth which is then tied round the mum's body. Often the mum's clothes are beautifully-patterned lengths of cloth anyway, often printed with mottoes and lucky proverbs, so it is very easy to add another one, or adapt an existing one to hold the baby. I guess this is what you would call a sling, except that it isn't a special kind of garment, it's just a simple adaptation of an object in widepsread use. Depending on what the mum is doing, the cloth will be tied so the baby is in front and to one side, very easy to feed or good if she is carrying a heavy weight on her back, or firmly against the mum's back, if she is digging or carrying things on her head. As far as I can remember mums know how to tell from noises and wriggles and the baby pulling faces when the baby needs to wee or poo, and hold it over a cloth, or a bowl, or just over the bare earth. This is all stuff I just took for granted: I should have asked more questions, but I never even thought about it before I got pregnant . But what I am finding so intriguing is my memory that it WAS all taken for granted: that mums were very clean, that babies were very clean, and the babies had beautiful healthy bottoms. And I will need to check but I think most women would have thought you had gone crazy if you suggested wrapping their baby's bottom up in soiled material.

That is so interesting

My favourite slings are simply long pieces of cloth which I use to tie babe to me...very comfortable.

Do you have any photos

It has also just occurred to me that when you see those beautiful medieval and renaissance paintings of the Virgin Mary and the baby Jesus, He never seems to be wearing a nappy. So I would guess that medieval western mums practiced EC despite the chilly climate

Oh, BabieseverywhereI wish I did have pictures! Just very clear visual memories and a sadly vague cultural context: I need to go back and spend time with some wise mums don't I? But you seem to be a very wise, patient mum! You have mentioned an EC pot: is this a special thing or just an ordinary pot? And, in a climate lke this where babies can't always go bare, do people use any special clothes? Following one of the links you suggested I found some very cute Chinese babies with trousers like chaps: legs covered and bare bum sticking out sweet

Still thinking about Virgin Mary and baby Jesus: I have just remembered this beautiful picture from the National Gallery in London \link{http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-bin/WebObjects.dll/CollectionPublisher.woa/wa/work?workNumber=NG6514} where the Virgin Mary is holding the Child over a cloth on her lap and encouraging him to wee! The Nationl Gallery description says there are 'clean nappies' in basket by her feet but they do not seem to be nappies in the modern sense. Does this look like your home life, babieseverywhere ?

Ive just arrived on the nappy board today. DD is 8 months. Im a little reading this because come to think about it, she has been signalling my attention before doing a poo, or even before a wee. Ive just ignored her and carried on mumsnetting or doing the housework until I know shes done her poo, then I change her i.e Ive been "training" her to get used to nappies. So now I think I may have been totally ignoring her signals over the past two months. Is there anyway I can re-start the process, and encourage her to start signalling to me again (she used to shout and look at me a lot and wave her arms- Im sure it was just before she was about to go).
I had no idea that she could be trying to "tell" me, and IVe totally been ignoring her!! ARe there any specific signs I should be looking out for. I use cloth nappies at the moment when Im in the flat. Is there any tips from people on how best to get back on track and re-start this communication between myself and DD?
Do you think Ive totally missed the chance to listen to what shes been telling me or is it worth trying to start up "elimination communication" from this point?

woozlekin

I don't use special clothes for DD but some EC mama's do.

Here is the EC pot I mentioned before but we never used one, so I have no idea how good/bad it is.

LOL and I'm not wise or patient, though I love my DD a lot, in fact I'm a bit lazy and it is much easier emptying potties than doing 100% full nappy changes

Sakura

The short answer is "Yes, it is worth a try"

As for signs, every child is different in how or if they signal.

Your child used to sign very clearly to you in the past and hence is very likely to do so again with encouragement. Some babies never signal and their parents relay on timing to catch the wees.

I would recommend buying a small baby potty for your daughter to use...i.e. Baby Bjorn Little Potty

I would start by trying to catch an easy wee after your child wakes up from any sleep/nap, sit her on a potty for a couple of minutes. You are nearly a dead cert to catch a wee.

If she wees in her nappy, sit her straight on the potty and you'll often get a longer second wee in the potty.

If you think a poo is coming and most mums know, stick her on the potty. I find poo's come in three sections, so make sure she has finished before whisking her away from the potty.

I talk to my daughter on the potty and/or give her toys to play with and unless she is actively pooing (which takes ages) I don't leave her on the potty for longer than a minute or two.

You can also introduce cue sounds if you like. We use Psss for wee and Prrr for poo.