THREENAGEERS

[malinki]

Does anyone on the list have a DD/DS who is nearly 4 and has been going through a "I hate you" stage, my DD says it when she can't have her own way or a treat and my DH basically says "Say sorry to mummy or go the the naughty step", she just goes off. Sometimes if I say no, she tries to smack me, I usually grab her arms in time and no harm done, when I tell her off or talk to her about why I think what she is saying is wrong, she tells me she doesn't care, then I feel like saying "Well, hell in that case, nor do I", we don't smack her, but sometimes I feel like I could kill her when she has these mood swings, my DH only has to raised his voice slightly and she is quivering, why me???? She is very special to us, conceived through fertility treatment and I have let her get away with murder, when DH sayd "Why do you let her talk to you that way", I just thought it might be normal until now , any advice needed please.

At 3 years old it is amazing what goes through a childs mind, it I let my daughter get away with the things she started doing, she would have been an international jewel thief (after going through my jewellery box and hiding 1/2 the stash), bank robber (she likes my husbands wallet, well so do I but thats different lol!!!) and the get away driver (like sitting in my car, trying to take the hand brake off and can't understand why it doesn't move, god we had to bricks infront of my tyres just incase). At least she has grown out of all of the above and is now more bothered about the fact that Barbie can't swim (even though she wears a swimming costume), nor can her horse, both of which I found at the bottom of her paddling pool at the weekend!!, According to my mum, I was just the same when I was 3, , Mum also said what goes round comes round.

Issymum, don't worry, like I've been saying to myself since reading your thread, I'll try it your way tomorrow. We've already managed to get her onto the naughty step, we say "Go to your naughty step and think about what you have just done/said", "come back to us when you can explain why you did/said it", 2 minutes later, she comes to us saying sorry, the hallway is time out when she has answered us back, i'd still like to kill her sometimes, but seeing her last night when we had a little visitor (hedgehog), she loved it and wanted to keep it, she is still so very innocent, and when she sleeps at night, both me and DH always go in and kiss her goodnight and look at her and say oh she's gorgeous, she then snores and turns over, just like her dad!!!

I really, really don't think the cuddle thing is manipulative. I think small children do panic that they have gone too far and you don't love them any more (their biggest fear in the whole wide world) and they need the reassurance. They want their world back in its safest form.
Issymum - you are a supermum with superkids!

I like cuddles AND ice cream too.

I think that's so well put, Issymum, after all this kind of behaviour is called being a social human being. I think we are sometimes too quick to label our children's behaviour in a derogatory way when they are actually learning to be competent members of society. After all, the ability to end a row with a heartfelt gesture of affection and a willingness to put it all behind us is something I think we would all be better off learning.
But then my son isn't three yet

Well DH is going to Silverstone this weekend on a boys all inclusive weekend (they do it every year), so I am taking my DD to see Shrek 2 and then to Pizza Hut after, she has been good nearly all this week, she had to be threatend that if she had any naughty stickers, she would lose an not go to the cinema or pizza hut. I have an angel!!!!!

Now I feel bad. Ds was really naughty earlier (I said he could not have any of my coke because it is bad for his teeth, popped to the loo and came back to find he had had a 'sip' and tipped the rest all over the floor of his play tent), and I got really cross. I explained that it was naughty to take something that had already been forbidden, and even naughtier to do it when I was not watching. I was really cross, and said that I did not want to cuddle him at that time, because UI was still cross. He was really upset

After a few minutes, I did give him a cuddle, and reinforce the facts of why I had been cross. But now I feel really mean that he was offering me cuddle because he was worried that I didn't love him anymore

It is so good to learn that I am not the only mother with an unpredictable 3 year old. My DD
was an absolute angel for the first 3 years, but now she has passed her 36th month she is like a different child. The most frustrating aspect is her utter disobedience. If she thinks I won't like it -she'll do it! Totally attention seeking and even more infuriating because she finds it so amusing! Can only practise the age-old ignoring method and hope it comes to a swift end soon.

I don't think you need to feel bad, Chinchilla. I'm not convinced that it's always that they think they aren't loved any more by this age. Not sure that it's manipulative in a sort of 'this'll tug at the heart strings' way, either. I think with ds, it's about distracting me from the telling off and not wanting to deal with the fact he's been naughty. And he'll smile charmingly sometimes and say 'let's be friends' - this because he doesn't want to say sorry and to change the subject in a way. Only 3 years old and well on the way to perfecting the defining masculine characteristic...

lucybelle - I think it depends on why they're misbehaving. If it's attention seeking, in my experience, ignoring bad behaviour doesn't work. When I have done that, dd's efforts to get my attention become more frantic and extreme until I absolutely MUST respond or descend into utter chaos.

My new regime over the past few weeks has worked a treat - communicate what I want from her, communicate what will happen if she doesn't comply, enforce what I have threatened if necessary, after the consequence talk about what happened and why. I don't let her slide on ANYTHING. Conversely, I praise her to the skies for good behaviour, and reward her lavishly both verbally and with special treats. In that way, perhaps she feels that she can control her own destiny to a certain extent - that is, if she's bad she "suffers", and if she's good, she is rewarded. I think we really have turned a corner, and I can't tell you how relieved I am! Of course, now that I have a solution that works, I'm sure the issues will change and I'll be starting over again with trying to figure out a good approach!

wow - I love mumsnet. I've been feeling so bad about all the rows DD and I are having

My 'Barbie Princess' is such a drama queen. She makes me more furious than I could ever have imagined but I want more than anything for her to be happy.

Of course my 10 month old boy is perfect and will never behave badly when he's older.....

I love what Issysmum posted - will try to keep it in mind at all times.

Keep smiling everyone

DD seems to have progressed to the next phase of "how to keep mummy guessing". Her latest stage is rejecting most physical affection or contact with me. She doesn't want to give/receive cuddles or kisses, she doesn't want to hold hands unless absolutely necessary (on the street, etc), doesn't want to sit in my lap, and tonight she even told me to move off the sofa because she didn't want me to sit next to her!

I know she's establishing her independence and the fact that she's separate from me with her own preferences. I consciously have taken a big step back so that she has the opportunity to initiate kisses/cuddles rather than have them regularly foisted upon her by a mushy mummy (difficult for me as I am quite a tactile person). But, she is definitely asserting her current preference for minimal physical contact - unless it's piggyback rides, tickling, or rough 'n' tumble play.

I miss our cuddles and she's been very stingy with them recently - except of course, yesterday I was across the room and watched her give the nanny a giant hug/kiss. I've also recently had to explain to her that it isn't appropriate to cuddle the workmen installing a fridge in our flat, or the porter in our building. So, she seems generous with hugs/kisses (or at least, the impulse is there), except with me at the moment. Anyone else experiencing this too? How do you handle it? Is it a predictable phase, or simply the fact that she simply doesn't like alot of physical affection? Or perhaps she's taking a stand with me as mum......

Well DD has started saying "I don't care" and "You're stupid", so I have started saying "that's nice darling, keep that up and you'll be on the naughty step in no time at all" (and with a calm voice and a smile on my face), DD told me that I was getting on her nerves, well I just cracked up laughing, rolling around on the floor nearly choking to death in the process and she told me I was a drama queen and I would win an oscar (she's 4 next week), oh the delights of DD's , I had to smile though as she has alot of me in her personality,

My ds told me to 'shut up' today Not sure where he got it from, but I told him in no uncertain terms that it was not acceptable to say that to anyone, especially not Mummy...grrr.

Also, lately, I have 'why do you say 'no' to everything?' Urmmm, because you keep asking for toys, DVDs, sweets, rides on toys outside supermarkets, ice-creams, biscuits (etc etc). Do you think I'm made of money? I ask him who is going to pay for these things, and he says 'You'!!! Silly me!

Well.....after the day we've had today, I thought it was time to revive this thread! How are all of you doing with your opinionated 3 year olds?

DD is testing the boundaries/wanting my attention all the time, and I've been more frustrated with her today than I'd like to be. Today it's been everything from not wanting to eat her meals, to not wanting to leave the playground (and having a tantrum when we did leave), to interrupting me constantly when I've tried to have adult conversations, to over dramatizing minor physical ailments as a form of attention seeking, not wanting to hold my hand as we cross the road, asking me the same questions over and over again (and obviously not listening to the answers), playing with her ice cream with her hands in a restaurant, alot of general whining and being a drama queen, drawing all over her hands with a black marker pen, climbing into my lap everytime I tried to do something that didn't involve her (like read a newspaper), deciding she needed an extended bathroom visit (30 minutes) when it was time for bed, jumping out of bed many times (wanted socks, more water, tissue, blanket rearranged), etc. Argh!!!

Is this simply a phase they all go through, or something I've got to nip in the bud? I've been firm and reprimanded her when necessary, but there's been far too much "negative" interaction today......and when she is so demanding, it's harder to give her positive attention. Quite a few times today she's said "sorry mummy, do you feel better now?", which has the strange effect of making me feel I've been short-tempered and cross, instead of her being difficult.

I make plenty of time for playing/interacting with her, so it's not as if she's starved for attention. Rather it seems she begrudges the time I'm not focused exclusively on her, and does most everything in her power to force me to pay attention....even if it's negative.

Any suggestions, observations, commiserations welcome!

I keep thinking my 3-yo has regressed. She never used to "get into things", climb furniture, push all the buttons on the computer at random. She wasn't superclumsy, she didn't fall off furniture or fall as soon as she started running down the road. But all that has changed.

She always had a thing about her feet touching things, but now they are in constant motion. I hate it when she tries to touch my face with her feet. She cant sit still on my lap (or anywhere) for even a millisecond. She used to sit still beautifully when she was a baby

Luckily she's verbally well-behind her peers, quite difficult to understand, so I can't understand what she's telling me much of the time, anyway... but then, she lacks confidence so isn't that bossy (yet).

One thing about listening -- I make mine repeat what I've said if they don't seem to be listening. If they repeat it, I know they heard it.

Zebra, could it just be that she's grown and isn't quite comfortable with her 'new' body yet? Like teenager get clumsy?
Just a thought.

ds2 won't be 3 until January- but he's definitely changed over the last month or so- well and truly a threenager. Fiercely independent (has to do everything himself), stroppy, whingy, argumentative - but absolutely hilarious with it. Honestly even when he's driving me mad (eg by refusing to walk forwards when we're in a hurry "no mummy I NOT walk forwards I walk backwards") I can't help but laugh at him. He's pretty well behaved at nursery - although they've said he's stubborn "no I NOT eat my dinner I want more cake" so I don't worry.

Earlybird I very much take the ignore any whinging/ whining etc approach and if he's reasonable he gets a response from us. I give him a "choice" a lot as well. Eg if he asks for chocolate buttons I'll tell him he can have an apple- if he then says (as he always does) "no I not want apple I want buttons" I say "apple or nothing". Usually he'll choose and apple right away although sometimes he's say "nothing" and then then only say apple once I've said fine don't have anything then. He does seek constant attention but is happy with a running commentary from afar -if I'm talking to him he'll leave me relatively in peace to get on with other things.

I have had lots of practice though as giving almost no response to some absolute shocking behaviour from ds1- so ds2 is an absolute doddle really (providing I can shut out the whinging).

This behaviour can really affect your own self esteem too. Lately I had begun wondering to myself why I wasnt a good mum anymore (ds now 3 and I had managed quite well with all the earlier stages). Even worse, I started to think I didnt like him very much, and the guilt that comes with that is terrible. This thread is fantastic and has put things in perspective. Its hard always being the "grown up" in the relationship. I dont think anything you do will change their behaviour because they have to just grow out of it, but the important thing is that while their frontal lobes are deveolping (as someone put it earlier in the thread) you are giving them consistent, secure and mature responses. You are helping them find the right way out, so to speak. If I sound very calm its because ds is off swimming with his dad right now. I'm going to print off this thread because I'm sure I'll need it within 5 minutes of them coming back!

Way back in August 2004 my DD was driving me crazy and, as I posted below, my 10m DS was perfect in every way. I drew great strength from thsi thread back then. And guess what - DD is now a wonderful liitle 6y old and DS is a threenage monster.

I knew this thread was in my watching list still so I came back for another look and laughed out loud when I saw my old post about lovely DS. He's been pushing me all day today, for weeks really and I've just had an absolute melt down with him.

Nearly time to allow him out of his bedroom (where I banished him)to start bathtime. Deep breath, forced smile, gin later

When I do get that gin later I'll raise a glass to MN, to all of you who had terrible threenagers back in 2004 and all of you who may be going through it now. Got to go - there's a little fella that needs a big cuddle