THREENAGEERS

[malinki]

Does anyone on the list have a DD/DS who is nearly 4 and has been going through a "I hate you" stage, my DD says it when she can't have her own way or a treat and my DH basically says "Say sorry to mummy or go the the naughty step", she just goes off. Sometimes if I say no, she tries to smack me, I usually grab her arms in time and no harm done, when I tell her off or talk to her about why I think what she is saying is wrong, she tells me she doesn't care, then I feel like saying "Well, hell in that case, nor do I", we don't smack her, but sometimes I feel like I could kill her when she has these mood swings, my DH only has to raised his voice slightly and she is quivering, why me???? She is very special to us, conceived through fertility treatment and I have let her get away with murder, when DH sayd "Why do you let her talk to you that way", I just thought it might be normal until now , any advice needed please.

3 is a pisser age. Um... not very good at advice, except hang in there?!

Erm, yes, ds is nearly four (in Oct) and last week he said that he wanted a new Mummy , told me to shut up and kept up this new routine for the next week. He actually had me in tears on more than one occasion . Like you, our ds is special to us as he had major heart surgery at 4 weeks old and has overcome so much, but in the process, we have let him get away with such a lot and I, in particular, find it difficult to be tough with him. I can only think this is yet another phase he is going through and hope that it passes soon.

Malinki, I'm with you there totally. Our dd does the same. She shouts "Go away" and "I don't want you to talk to me" as well as "You're not my friend any more". I get hit regularly when she doesn't get her own way and it's driving me mad. I get screamed at if I don't do what she wants straight away and (as last night)I get shouted at for helping her by getting something she needs. I want to go on strike sometimes. It makes me feel like dirt she has wiped off her shoe. And then the next day, she is as pleasant as pie, smiling, doing as she's told and bringing me flowers because I'm her best mummy.
I have no advice. But oodles of empathy and join you in your exasperations. Hang in there. I'm told it doesn't last forever.

My theory is that everyone has ages which "suit" them and although it's not much comfort now the next phase will probably be a lot different. My dd2 was a fantastic bright and easy baby, but was horrible at 3 to 5 and then better again until 13. The other two similarly were lovely at different ages.

My 3 year old is currently throwing a record major wobbly. It started half way through dinner, so I've just calmly chucked the remainder in the bin and I can hear the dulcet tones of screaming from upstairs as dh is manhandling him into bed.

Fun this age, isn't it?

Ah yes, yes, yes. All familiar. Unfortunately, too familiar. I wrote in desperation about this on another thread, but was feeling quite pleased not to have felt the need to write again.....thinking maybe a difficult phase had passed.....until today.

DD (3.6) needs a nap every day, but for some reason will not sleep maybe one day a week. Today was that day. I make her rest even if she doesn't sleep, but it's not the same. So, after a nice morning, we had the afternoon and evening from hell. Every single thing I asked her to do had to be repeated three, four, five times. She wouldn't listen or comply until things were at fever pitch - and then of course by that time, consequences (that she'd been warned about) were close at hand. So, not only did she not do what was asked, but there was escalating tension, followed by the hysteria that accompanied a punishment (naughty step, no sweets, etc.) Logically, I know today's episodes came because she was overtired, but a child writhing/screaming in the aisles of Sainsbury's can make all logic evaporate!

It is so hard. I hate being upset with her. I hate it when she cries. I hate the tension and conflict. I just want to enjoy my lovely little girl, and I feel that I'm at odds with her far too often. It does help to know that so many of you are experiencing the same thing, but it's natural to feel that there must be a better way.

And yes malinki and bagpuss, I'm right there with you. DD was conceived via IUI and extensive fertility treatments. I guess there is an added poignancy, and an appreciation of the blessing/miracle when you've struggled so much to have that child exist and thrive.

And Cadbury, I can completely relate to a child who is sweet as pie after a major blowout. My dd rejects many of my offers of cuddles/kisses, but wraps herself around my leg and tells me she loves me immediately after she's been really naughty. Manipulative, or simply looking for reassurance that she hasn't gone too far? Who knows.

No specific advice to offer. All I can do is offer commiseration, and say you're not alone. Given that so many of us are experiencing the same thing, it must simply be typical of the age. Hang in there, and let's keep supporting each other here.

GeorginaA - know what you mean about the manhandling. Sometimes the only way to move them along is to pick them up or lead them by the arm. The accompanying screams of protest make me feel I'm being too rough - even though I know I'm not. Sometimes there's just no other way when they're beyond being reasoned with. They can really kick up a fuss can't they?

Oh yes

Horrible, horrible evening yesterday. He's normally fairly good in the evenings (has a tendency to be whiny and uncooperative in the mornings though, which we're gradually reducing (touch wood) with the aid of a sticker chart) so it was a huge shock.

Thinking about it, I'm wondering whether it was because he was given a whole tube of smarties at a friend's house this afternoon, plus quite strong orange squash which he doesn't drink very often - normally has water. Normally, he'd only have one of those small boxes of smarties after a meal as a reward for eating well. I think it might have been overdose of E-numbers... sigh.

We had a dreadful evening last night after a good day and fun party (thanks aero) but even after her dad having (what passes for) strong worrds (for him), she carried on being totally dissobediant and defiant and so was put to bed without any of the usual fun bits, baths or stories. She screamed for an hour. My blood pressure stayed really high for ages and I just felt so emotionally wrecked. This morning she is attempting to be helpful but I've had to count already and give several threats and warnings. I'm afraid she is going to be at her weorst when I have an appointent this afternoon. I think bribary may be the way to go for that one. It really helps to know other people have similar problems.

Well last night, was fairly good until dd went to see her friend, "Emily" who is 5, at 7.00pm I went to collect her from Emily's garden, well what a perfomance, she ran into Emilys house crying "I don't want to come home, I want to live with Emily", so I had to go into the house, pick her up, march out of Emilys house (and they had guests, so god knows what they thought), marched her into our house, shut and locked the door (as she has a sly trick she plays when this happens, she goes round the house until she finds a door that can be opened and does a runner. I ran into the lounge and locked the conservatory doors and lifted her upstairs, I didn't say anything to her in all that time, I took her into her bedroom and told her to stay there until she calmed down, a colleague at work was telling me that she throws cold water (only a little in a beeker) in her dd face when she has a tantrum and it works, so last night, dd was in the bath still crying and carrying on, so I got the Ikea childrens beekers that she has and filled one with about 1" of cold tap water, OMG what a difference, I told her to be nice to me otherwise she was going to get it, she carried on, so I threw it at her and she sat there almost "I don't believe you did that to me", then she started giggling and threatend to throw the bath water at me, so I let her fill a little bit and she threw it at my face, we then enjoyed 1 hour of playing with her still in the bath, this morning, I have an angel (although, I don't know how long it will last) lol!!! I still don't know if I did the correct thing, but she can be so Jeckel and Hyde its untrue and my husband never see's any of it , still he will at the weekend and I will just sit back and watch what he does , thanks to everyone who has replied, its so nice to be with passengers on this sinking ship of 3nagers

Issymum, you have made some really good suggestions, thanks, I will put them to good use and suggest with DH that we try them , will let you know how we get on!!!

Another thing you could try (dh's idea).

We have a sticker chart with re-usable stickers (from Mothercare). There are different stickers for things like getting dressed and eating dinner etc. We have told ds that he must get three stickers at least per day or I will not let him watch his Spiderman DVD (his favourite) the day after, and that if he gets more than five he can have some ice-cream after dinner. Sounds a bit cruel but it works and he is suddenly very co-operative

Love the psychosis definition...I find the hardest thing with my three year old is her verbal ability which far outstrips her reasoning.

I think my two year old has hit threenage puberty early

Today has been much better, but I think that's because dd has been with her nanny all day! Thank goodness, as I needed a break. We'd already had quite a bit of drama by 9 am when the nanny arrived, so it was set to be a looonnnngg, hard day!

Now that I've had a bit of a break and some time to reflect, I think I'll try to institute a slightly different regime in future. I realise that as I want to be a kind, loving and generous mummy, I have been constantly "rewarding" dd without letting her know that something special is happening.

For example, if we're out, we'll sometimes get an ice cream. I do it because I think she'd enjoy it and think it is a nice thing to do. So, it's all a bit matter of fact. My plan now is to say "if you're good this afternoon, we'll have an ice cream later" or "because you've been so good today, I think we should have an ice cream as a special treat". I can see that I have been getting the ice cream (or whatever else) for her as a matter of course, rather than setting it up so that it is a reward for good behaviour.

So, just as she suffers consequences for being naughty (time out, etc), I now plan to make a big fuss, and reward her for being good. I realise I have been "giving away" the incentive of special treats because I want to do nice things for her. Perhaps I can now highlight the special rewards for good behaviour, just as the punishments for naughty behaviour are highlighted too. That way, I hope she can see that how she acts has a direct result on what happens in her life - both good and bad. So, that's the new plan.....at least for now...... Don't know if that's very clear - finding it hard to think clearly enough to express myself in this heat!

By the way, great suggestions/insight from Issymum. Thanks.

Issymum, I am printing out your post and will blu-tac it to the kitchen unit for future reference

Fantastic post, Issymum.

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Me too issymum. Thanks for your wisdom.

Most Stupid Reason For Threenage Tantrum?

DD1, on Friday (a very hot day) suddenly bellowed tearfully from the front room, as I tried to pack for a couple of days away, 'I DON'T WANT BABY TO BE NAKED'...FFS, why does the fact her sister is wearing nothing but a nappy have to wind her up?

Didn't give in. It was nearly bathtime anyway.

Great advice issymum - thank you. I shall particularly try the 'it's just noise, I'm in control bit'.

My dd1 (aged 3.5) is also very verbally advanced, and sometimes I find myself having to justify my reasons for disciplining her in a certain way - which then also gets my goat!! Like the night last week when she took off her wet wraps (for eczema) in the middle of the night, and then demanded that I put them back on again. Not doing so isn't an option of course...but I found myself having to explain yet again why it wasn't helpful for her to have taken them off in the first place. And this at midnight.

Another tactic she uses is to start scratching the moment I put her in our utility room (our equivalent of the naughty step). The door is glass, so I can see her, and once again, cannot ignore the possible damage. She knows this of course.

The most difficult thing is when I'm tired (also have dd2 aged 5 months, who's not sleeping much..., and dd1 wakes several times a night too). Then I lose it much more quickly. I find the physical violence towards me very difficult when I'm tired, but I try to remember the super nanny comment - that you wouldn't tolerate another person's child doing that to you (or another adult), so why is it ok for your child?

She also said something that I find very helpful when I'm feeling like a nazi, nagging dd1 to do something again and again - that small children find your loss of control very frightening - they want you to impose order and boundaries, even as they fight against them.

Earlybird - My ds tells me he loves me, or offers cuddles when he has just been told off. Today, he emptied all my hand-made cards onto the lounge floor when I was in the kitchen. I blew up, and he realised how cross I was. He then offered said cuddle, and told me he loved me - manipulative? Surely not!