Please reassure me that I not the only parent out there who is not fixated with getting a baby in a routine?

[alex8]

Am not against routines at all and I do do bedtime ones but I would just like sometimes to meet people who aren't stressed that their 3 wk old babies aren't in one. It must be great if helps you and I don't want to get into a row about whether they are good or not. I did stress about it with my first child and when I gave up it was a huge relief. Sometimes I think I am the only one who doesn't have a daytime one.

I fell asleep early and DD fell asleep late btw. Generally DC are asleep by about 8.

I think a natural rythym is more appropriate, waking at about the same time, walking at about the same time and feeding at about the same time. Trying to avoid a sleep after 4. That sort of thing.

You might find that your baby puts you in a routine without any intervention. A lot of babies have their attachment parenting parents in routines.

Most children fall into a natural routine without the need for controlled crying or dark rooms, strict meal times or nap times. Usually its a routine that makes everyone happy.

Thousands of years ago mums had no watches, everyone breastfed and there was no concept of a routine. People just followed the seasons and got up when the sun came up and went to bed at sunset.

someone I met who did a certain popular routine said when I had my first baby that they did cc at 4 months as they weren't sleeping through. But surely most asre still hungry at that age? And another said if you didn't do a routine they would wake up every hour at night. This made no sense to me.

I always think im quite a stressed obsessive person but am increasingly feeling like the most laid back hippie type parent. My first child had his own routine and at 6 months started sleeping thtough and having a long day time nap but it was in the am not pm or lunchtime. It was fine, I got time to myself if I wanted it and if I wanted to go out in the am or have him sleep in his pushchair we did that.

My friend met people who who leave a cafe if baby falling asleep so they could get him back to a darkned room. I would have just said yippee and had another coffee and cake.

Yup, as long they're in bed by 7ish I'm happy. And as far as I can tell nothing I do during the day effects that unless DD's mega tired and grumpy when it might take a little longer. Agree that bedtime is slightly different - have to put DD down by 7 at night at latest or go mad. I also think a routine means that you don't actually learn to read your own baby's signals. A friend of mine admitted this saying, I just wouldn't know what to do with DS if I didn't know what to do at what time. I think that's sad.

Lovin' this thread. Dd1 had daytime routine, albeit a fairly relaxed one, and strict bedtime routine. Now that I have 8 week old dd2 I've been puzzling how to fit any kind of daytime routine into dd1's social schedule, now I think I just won't bother! Bedtime routine and muddling through the day it is then.

I think I am putting both ds's needs and mine first by almost always being home for his nap. Ds's because he gets his sleep and is less unhappy and mine because I enjoy him more when he is not grumpy.

I've seen quite a lot of tired, grumpy irritable toddlers being dragged places just because their parent doesn't want them to curtail things or because they just have to (other siblings have things on etc)

I have no problem with this and if I could do this and enjoy it or if I HAD to do it then I would.

I completely agree that no-one should stress about routines when a baby is small but for some toddlers they are MUCH happier with a fairly set routine.

To my mind being a good parent is responding to your child's need as much as your family asituation allows you to. In the early weeks/months - being a go with the flow type parent is ideal. However for some babies as they get older a more set structure is needed and if you absolutely refuse to give them that just because it is is a bit restrictive then I personally see that as being as bad as trying to impose a rigid feeding/sleeping schedule on a very young baby. In both cases you are ignoring their needs.

Luckily all my children sleep well in a pushchair so never had to drag them round anywhere.

lazycow what do you do on days out? or do you not have many of them?

I only have ds at the moment so that makes it easier. If I have another I can only pray they will sleep while I am out - if they don't then I will probably be forced to ignore what they need a bit and make them fit in with me and ds's needs even if it doesn't suit them.

I actually don't see how that is any worse or better than doing controlled crying to get them to sleep in a cot. In both cases the child's needs are being ignored/modified so that they fit in with our family life.

Nothing is perfect is it?

As for days out - ds and I have loads of morings out and afternoons out. In fact he goes out every single day just not for the whole day.

It is only recently as he has got more flexible and can do without a nap some days that we go out for whole days. It is very rare though - only 1-2 a month probably.

He is with a CM some days and she does the same. There are no whole days out, just morning, then lunch at home, a nap, then afternoons out or playing inside.

We have travelled a bit so on the travel days obviously this doesn't apply but tbh even when we are on holiday we try and keep to a modified version of his routine otherwise he gets so overtired/grumpy it is just no fun for anyone.

It has cutailed/changed my life considerably - but doesn't having kids do that anyway?

This is the main reason I am enjoying him so much more as he gets older. It is so great not to have to worry about his meltdowns if he misses a nap. Now he is over 2.5 I can really see the end of the tunnel on it and we have the odd day where he can do without a daytime sleep and be just normally grumpy/a bit tired and goes to bae a bit earlier to make up for it. He can't do it two days in a row though.

If that worked for you its great. I love to go for whole days, or visit friends and spend the day with them. I just like going exploring and trying new places and would go crazy just being local all the time. My son is very flexible perhaps because we haven't had a huge routine and when little used to fall asleep anywhere. Or slept on the way there or back thus enjoying the actual place we were visiting. It was useful on holiday cos we could have evenings out and weren't stuck in hotel rooms. When at home he would sleep regularly at a certain time in the am which got later as he go older. I would have had a hard time getting him to sleep at the same time as most books advocate.

Everyone is different, as adults even. I am not big into routine and have worked freelance for years. Other people love the stability of regular 9-5 work. I just hate the way some people think its the only way to treat children and its the only way that works.

I'm similar to Lazycow in that I do like to be at home for afternoon naps. DD is 4 in July and still regularly has 1 - 2 hours sleep in the afternoon, as does ds who is 19months.
Not set in stone - if we have gone out in the morning and dd is stil going, then we keep on and she skips a nap and ds sleeps out and about. Also, she is at pre-school for one full day (will be 2 in September) so obviously no nap then.
She does seem to need her sleep (I'm the same) and it's clearly something that also suits ds. Also I do like to have a family meal when dh gets home, so they tend to go to bed at 7.30 for 8, which is difficult when they are shattered and obviously on days when they haven't slept, they eat earlier and go to bed earlier.
So the gist of what I'm saying is that I'd prefer not to do stuff between say 1 and 3, but will if we are on a roll or it's been arranged that way.

And part of the reason I also like them to nap at home at a fairly regular time is that I get time to do stuff and don't have to spend the evening loading the washing machine/hoovering and so on.
So I suppose it is because it suits me, but I don't think either child would sleep unless they were tired and needed the down time.

I'm not anti-routine, but I don't like fixed, one-size-fits-all routines, or those which are so rigidly structured that even deviating by ten minutes is frowned upon.

I preferred to let dd sleep when she was tired, eat when she was hungry, play when she was alert and wanted to play, and I found that she gradually fell into her own natural routine. Going along with that felt much kinder than trying to force her into a routine (a) before she was ready and (b) that went against her natural rhythm.

think it's easier to have a routine/structure with only 1 child, gets harder if you have more I think
have to say, after dd3 was born I wasn't that ambitious in terms of doing things in the afternoons with dd2 and dd3 as I wanted some rest myself and made sure that dd2 had a nap so that I could rest too

But I'm not sure it is harder to have a routine when you have more.

My cm has a child in school and two toddlers and a baby to look after. As she says she is incredibly lucky that they all sleep well at home after lunch but ds's days there are more structured than when with me because the cm wakes them at a set time because she has to do a school run. Because she wakes them at a set time, she tends to make sure they go down for a nap at the same time each day so that they get enough sleep.

I don't have that restriction so ds probably has a less structured routine with me than at his cm. He doesn't always go to sleep at exactly the same time and wake up at the same time etc.

I think the reason I get a bit peeved with this - go with your child stuff and anything more organised is unfair to them is that most people with more than one child, who have a toddler at nursery and/or others at school do actually have quite set routines and babies in those familes just have to fit in with that routine as best they can.

How is it worse that the baby screams in the cot than if they scream in the car or the pushchair on the school run because they would rather be asleep but have been woken or can't fall asleep or are hungry or whatever.

The point I am making is that it is a bit disingenuous to say 'oh I don't have any sort of routine' I just go with my baby/child as it suggests that anything else is selfish parenting. I would argue that for many people it is anyting but selfish and also that anyone with more than 1 young child cannot possible 'go with the flow' and allow all of them to sleep and eat whenever it suits them. To pretend otherwise is ridiculous.

No routine in our household either. Some things determined from the outside happen at regular times - partner leaving for work in the morning and returning in the evening for example - and we all go to bed at roughly the same time and have meals at roughly the same time, but my daughter fits around that and I've never tried to get her into a nap routine as that would make my life a misery. Routine enough when school starts in September.

the point is for me is the reverse that I am probably the selfish one. To maintain my sanity I needed to be out and about meeting people. Luckily my children have been fine with this. I doubt I could have had a strict routine even if someone had proved it was the best possible way ever to raise a child.

Ahh Anna it did make my life hell in the early days - problem is it was a fractionally better hell than in the pre-routine days and for ds it made his day much better (if his mood, amount of crying and ability to be pacified by breastfeeding and cuddles are any measure of happiness in a baby)

I think you are right Lazycow. I am having no 4 in a few weeks and have morning school run, lunchtime pick ups and afternoon school run to factor in day to day. Somehow this baby is going to have fit in with the school times from the off.

Not having a routine would be a luxury for both of us!

OK for me DD1 had a strict routine for feeding, but this was imposed on her by the hopsital (she was prem and HAD tp be fed a set amount at a set time) however the rest of her life was not a 'routine' per se. She sleppt when needed, never up oin her cot during the day, we had a big pram she used to sleep in, and she came with us whenever/wherever.

DD2 was BF and all I did was push (gently mind you) into a 3hrly feeding routine. This felt natural for her and me. She then came with me everywhere (as before) and slept when she needed to and ate approx every 3 hrs. IIRC At night she used to go to bed at 8ish, wake at 11pm feed and scream for an hour or two!! went to bed again at 1am (DH did those 2 hrs!!) wake once at 3, wake again at 6 then sleep until 8am. After about 8 or 10 weeks she fed at 8, then once again when I went to bed (11ish) then once in the night, waking about 7 - 8. I think she slept 11 - 7 (which to me is sleeping through) from about 12 weeks. By then she ate at kind of meal times as it seemed to work. Breakfast, mid morning, lunch, mid afternoon, supper.

No other routine, naps and things came as and when. I did try to get both kids to nap mid afternoon together but IIRC it happened rarely!

lazycow, i have an older child, my dd is 2 and goes to playschool 3 days a weeks so ds has to fit around that as well as toddler group and swimming and i can categorically state he is never screaming and upset while we're moving around.

if he wants to sleep he is capable of dropping off anywhere, car seat/buggy/my arms, and can sleep through the rumpus of toddler group or dd having a tantrum.

some days he wakes up at 7am and in i get him ready first and he gets breakfast and a bf, other days he wants a lie in and i leave him asleep til just before we head out, dress him quickly and he gets fed when i'm back home or when i get to the shops after dropping off dd.

he's a happy contented little chap (everyones first comment is what a cheerful smiley baby he is) so it's obviously not making him miserable or grumpy!