Ex withholding passport help

[Inga35]

My ex is refusing to give me my daughters passport for our trip to Australia at Christmas. There is an order in place however I have to provide full details of the trip which I am refusing to do because I have made a mistake with the return date which breeches the Court Order and can’t afford a Solicitor help please

Well quite piglet, who doesn’t triple check flight times/dates before actually booking

If you’re taking her during his weekend and not coming back on the correct date then why are you refusing to let him have dd the weekend before? It’s your time with your daughter? What about his time with her? You’ll have loads of time with her on your trip.
You’re totally in the wrong here. You need to grow up. Tell your ex there was a mix up with dates but show him the flight details to prove you are in fact coming home. Tell him that because of the mess up he can have dd the weekend before, the sat before the flight and the weekend that you do eventually come home.
Everyone’s happy.

I don’t blame him for withholding the passport when you won’t give him flight details.

I agree. Just let him have the weekend before, surely?

Why wouldn't you let him have her the weekend before. You are taking her on a long holiday where you will have plenty of time with her. Seems only fair he gets 'your' weekend as a compromise. And is it really that difficult to say here is our plans I made a mistake with the return date. I'm very sorry, but am happy to reschedule another weekend for you to have with her to make up for it!

You are in the wrong. Comply with the court order.

So now you are saying you made a mistake with the dates at both ends? That seems very unlikely. I think you knew that he would object to you taking her away for both of his contact weekends AND Christmas. You've made this far worse than it needed to be.

The only reason you are not giving him the dates is because you know you are in the wrong and are in breach of the court order.

Here's what you need to do.
A) Go and sign up to the Wikivorce website. They have an excellent forum and lots of legal advice.

B) Apply to the family courts for a Specific Issue Order and fill out form C100 which you will need to present to the clerk when applying. This will cost you less if you self rep and do not use a lawyer.
Don't be afraid of self-repping. I did it.

Read this: childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/taking-a-child-on-holiday/

Good luck!

Ok - I am not in favour of holding passports as that is controlling - but you are clearly in breach by not sharing details, and by picking dates that inpinge on his contact. You are being deeply unreasonable, more so when you refuse to swap the weekends around as its "your weekend" well, it would seem that he is doing this right back. He is well within his rights to insist on his weekends of contact and if that ruins your trip - well thats your fault for not doing it.

All that being so.... i heard a thing on the radio yesterday and it was a convoluted case of a woman who had 7 babies taken into care and stated that she was going to have more until they let her keep one. The social worker simply said "where are the interests of the child in this decision".

So what would suit your daughter? I think offer to swap the weekends, fess up to the mistake - try saying "I was wrong" and offer a concrete alternative to the time - ie a few more weekends at his choosing.

She will get 3 sets of benefits - more quality time with both parents, an uninterrupted holiday and finally - less stress and anxiety from you both.

Offer the hand of friendship and co-operation, if it is batted away - offer it again and again.

The court order is a minimum framework - you have the ability to agree things between yourselves - if you want him to give ground - so should you, offer it freely and openly.

@TheVanguardSix I am assuming they already have been to court for a specific order in the first place and it is that which the OP is breaching.

A court is not going to look kindly on the OP intentionally breaking the Order twice and not being at all flexible to correct it. Complete waste of court time.

Her ex isn't being unreasonable in what he is asking.

and yes you could ask for a SIO - but expect a judge to be deeply short tempered with you for getting to court.

I have seen them say - for example "you are both adults - simply sort this out - if you ask me to make decisions on behalf of the children i can pretty much guarantee neither of you will like what I decide"

Seriously - court should be the very last resort - even now - and the judge wont think highly of you for bringing this to court now - before an xmas holiday - it would have to be an ex-parte order at this late stage as a date to decide the matter would be about 4-6 months away. An ex-parte order at this stage would be unlikely.

You are asking for a significant variation of a final order it would seem on the basis of a trip down under. furthermore - you will never get any coooperation again if you go down the court route. Its a gamble as well - expect an alternate order to be instantly raised and then the whole melodrama will start again.

Is this in the interests of your child??

Given that he won't see his child for a significant amount of time whilst you're on holiday, I think giving him the weekend before is only fair. It would be in your interests to find a compromise and be flexible here since he holds all the passports cards - you are in breach of the court order with your booked dates and refusing to give him travel details. Time to apologize for the mix up and behaving like an adult.

I'm wondering if this is a reverse and the op is in fact the father who has found out the end date is wrong too.

If not then blimey.
I am a single Mum with a not great ex but you sound like a nightmare sorry.

You want him to miss contact before the holiday because you/your family has booked the date wrong and you begrudge him having an alternative weekend with your child because it will mean you miss a weekend with her but knowing he will miss his weekend with her while you are away.

Especially when you will spend presumably a full week or fortnight with her 24/7 on holiday but expect him to miss what looks like it will probably be two weekends.

I'm guessing he's withholding because he's had this shit before.

What is the specific court order you are breeching? If you are the resident parent named on a child arrangement order then you don't need his permission to take your dd on holiday so what is going on here.

This sounds like someone trying to pull a fast one but it’s back fired because the ex hasn’t been as trusting/flexible as they were previously.

Op you would be amazed at the effect "oops - i got this wrong - and i want to make it right for us both and DD" would have.

I am beginning to think he probably has seen this shit before - hence the court order - but that is reaching.

My point stands - compromise - offer alternatives - offer recompense and making his life easier and avoid going down the court route. As it stands if he has the passport you wont be getting on the plane and if you try and get another and it gets to UKBA you will be in a lot of trouble. As in you could find yourself on the wrong end of an emergency PSO and a holding room at heathrow.

Getting a new passport and travelling with a court order in place and being in breach of it and without his permission is really REALLY bad advice.

Not only are parents travelling alone more likely to be questioned these days and especially with a country like Australia where you are more likely to go through a more thorough immigration. You could be done for child abduction if you don't have a residency order and when you don't turn up to contact on the date at the start and date at the end he's going to go back to court and a judge is going to be REALLY unimpressed.

WTFdoipick, most Child Arrangement Orders now specify that the children shall reside with both parents and set out a schedule pertaining to contact. So it would fall to that schedule.

Agree with monty - parents alone are increasingly questioned and Oz is particularly aware of this. UK and Australia authorities will co-operate remarkably quickly on this - really quite stunningly fast if they set their mind to it.

Either way - you would end up in front of a very very grumpy judge indeed.

Or worse after a long flight turned back home or pulled aside in Australia because he has alerted someone op has gone with no permission when she doesn't turn up for contact.

And before all the I've travelled to the moon with the kids with no permission and never been stopped people turn up, so had I until I was stopped leaving Lemnos in Greece,pulled out of the queue and had passports taken until it was clear I had flown in with the kids the week before and was flying out with the same kids and had permission.

Also been stopped entering Majorca and questioned.

It sounds like you have stuffed up big time and maybe you should be taking responsibility for that rather than posting with a threat title that makes it look like you are the victim here, you are not! It looks to me like you have two choices (1) explain to your ex that you stuffed up and panicked and try to offer extra time before/after the trip to get him onside or (2) pay for a solicitor who will probably advise the same. As someone else has said the only thing that overrides one set of court orders is another court order. Whatever you do, do not take the advice of the idiot above who suggested you fraudulently apply for a new passport.

So what are you going to do when your not in the country and he’s text you checking he’s getting dd as per the court agreement on his weekend?

Re-applying for a passport is a massively bad plan. Just explain you/your sis cocked up with the dates, how about he take dd for the weekend before (your weekend leaving you to travel on his weekend and then since if sounds like you will be travelling back on his weekend he then takes your dd the following weekend (so your weekend). You’ll get all that quality time with your dd on a holiday of a lifetime. He gets the same time as normal.

If you can’t afford a solicitor to sort out this mess what you going to do when you have effectively breached the court order and kidnapped your child? He’s got every right to keep the passport until you provide the information

If he’s got any sense, he will have alerted the passport office to the possibility of you trying to fraudulently get another passport.

Maybe this mixup was entirely unintentional. However it was caused, you need to own up to it now. You can’t just ignore it.

It’s not nice not knowing the dates flight details etc.
My ex won’t tell me even though a court order in place and I have to let my babies go every year not knowing where they are.
He’s broken 10 orders the system stinks.
Just amend the details to comply with the order and give ex details.
He holds the passports as he refuses to give them to me, unless I get him on child abduction no way of stopping him.
But since it’s written in I agree to him going abroad too I have no power.
It’s not nice not to know where your kids are and when they are coming back.
Do the right thing