Could someone explain this to an expectant mum?

[EssentialHummus]

First off: I'd really rather this didn't turn into "ha ha ha wait til it's your turn, we'll see what a great parent you are then" - I'm asking because I genuinely want to understand this, not to criticise anyone's parenting. I've no idea what I'll do in practice.

I'm very pregnant and attend an antenatal club. A few women there who already have older children were describing the tears/tantrums their DC had over very minor things ("I cut his toast the wrong way" etc).

In each case the mums were then genuinely upset that they'd (in the example above) run out of bread so couldn't re-do it.

I found myself thinking that if I was faced with this situation right now, my attitude would be, There's the toast, eat it or don't, and if you want to tantrum be my guest.

So - if you've found yourself in a similar situation, how do you react and why, assuming the child in question is neurotypical? It's been playing on my mind since Friday and I'd love to hear from others.

Ah, let me explain something about pregnancy:

it changes your brain. The hormone bath literally remolds sensitivity to other people's feelings. One pregnancy may not do much of such changes, but after several pgs you're very likely to cry at stupid things. Your baby cries & your milk starts flowing. Somebody else's angry infant cries & it's so physically painful that you have to leave the room (or supermarket).

So yeah, you can think "Tough luck kiddo!" but it can be painful/impossible to be like that, too. Not a personality choice, it's brain chemistry due to the floods of hormones beyond your control. So yeah, you could even feel guilty about upsetting them.

DH & I were joking that we're now on the other side. Our reactions to sounds of crying children have changed with our own status:

1. (child-free): what annoying brats
2. (new baby): Wow that's stressful, make it stop
3. (boisterous LOs at home): What now?!
4. (youngest almost 10yo): As long as it doesn't mean an angry parent storming across the playground to complain about my child, I don't care what noise they're making.

Well - it might be a question of picking your battles.

Equally, there do seem to be a lot of parents who are simply astonished at the notion that their child should, on occasion, just suck it up. Baffled by the idea.

It is possible to give in on some things but still have boundaries!! E.G. I let my DD (2y9m) choose which colour plate she wants, and make a fuss and change her mind, but she doesn't get to change what she has for her meal.
Like another poster says, at the moment my DD is very much wanting to exert a bit of control over things and I think sometimes a good screaming fit does seem to clear things out for her after a morning of whinging. I'd rather she did it over her plate colour or toast shapes at home than in some unsafe situation out of the house.

But yes I thought the same as you before I had a DC.

If they're pregnant that wont help either.

When you're pregnant and hormonal and you can't get your toddler to stop having a tantrum over something stupid it's very easy to feel overwhelmed.

Another pick your battles advocate here.

For example, in the toast situation, If DD1 (2yo) has eaten well and is just being fussy, then tough. If OTOH, I can only get some nutrition into her by compromising, then I will. The latter is quite rare. We do quite a lot of negotiating and it usually ends more in my favour than hers.

I'm tough on her if I've asked her to do something/stop doing something and she defies me. She'll go to her bed/away from the situation for a minute or two to calm down. Then she says sorry, we forget about it and move on. Works for us.

melvin when you say negotiating is that along the lines of "If you ask nicely/say please Mum will make you more toast?" Or something else?

Just to add that I never really understood everyone talking about "picking your battles" until I had a toddler. I'm sure you will too OP.
And I'm sure I thought "oh I'd never do XYZ when I'm a parent" but you end up doing whatever you can to get through it.

There's an element of expecting her to be polite, but I'll also consider what's more important to me.

It might be 'if you eat your egg, I'll make some more toast'. I'd rather she ate the egg because it's better for her.

Otherwise it might be 'well, Daddy hasn't made his toast yet, so if you ask him nicely he might swap with you. You need to clean your teeth nicely though...'.

That's the thing crow - these are women who I'm broadly on the same wavelength as wrt other things to do with birth, work, etc, so I imagine our approaches to parenting wouldn't be miles apart. I'm trying not to say that I'll never do x or y, because I've no bloody idea.

I also try to remember that while I've got a million and one things to think about and my toast is pretty inconsequential, DD's life is much simpler and the little things are likely to matter more.

Before she goes to bed, I always ask her what she's enjoyed doing that day. She comes out with the smallest details, maybe one sentence I've said that she thought was funny. I think it's cute.

If I cut it the wrong way and it caused a tantrum I'd leave them to it but if I knew they wanted it cut a certain way in the first place I'd do it to avoid a tantrum.

Look, OP, you don't turn into someone else because you become a parent. In my experience, anyway. You'll gradually figure out the kind of parent you are based on a kind of compromise between your personality and your child's after the terrible initial phase where parenthood involves trying to distinguish between the newborn hungry wail, the nappy wail and the existentially fucked off with life wail which might see you run a tight ship on toast shapes but being more flexible on long term co-sleeping. Someone will always think you spoil your child rotten and someone else will think you're insanely lax.

I wouldn't worry about this now op. You'll be in the thick of it soon enough and you will know your child best, whether they are compliant, whether they have a particular dinner set they prefer, whether they like triangle or rectangle toast.

There is a lot of trial and error, but I will say, when you find a strategy that works, share it with your partner. I spend more time with the children so find out more about what works, it's always helpful to give DH a heads up.(currently it's well cooked toast in 4 squares on the orange plate)

at existentially fucked off with life wail.

DD2 is excellent at this. Even the best negotiator is useless when faced with a 12 week old.

I think Aquamarine has explained it well.

All kids are different. You can't really decide how you'll parent them till you meet them.
Mine is not at all rigid about how things are done / cut but I know others are. It's not me or my parenting, it's his personality.

Years ago, when I had just one DC - the easiest, sweetest, most placid baby in the world - a much older friend of mine told me a story about how one of her DC had gone into meltdown because she had (at his request) broken his Brezel in half for him to eat. It was the last Brezel. She sellotaped it back together. I remember thinking "not on my watch".

Years later, I have now have 3 DC, a pretty utilitarian approach to parenting, and a thousand stories like that all of my own. Like PPs have said: you pick your battles, and sometimes you take the short-termist view because, frankly, you're so frazzled that - at that moment - the next ten minutes seem much more crucial to your sanity than all your noble long-term parenting goals put together (that, by the way, is also why so many little kids can operate an iPhone ;-)

Because you can't reason with s toddler.
Because babies/toddlers etc do not understand things not going their way, and do not have the emotional maturity to accept it.
Because when you've not had more than 2 hrs unbroken sleep for 3 years, you blow things out of proportion, the wailing grates and you feel put upon enough as it is.
Because triangular toast is far superior!

Until you've experienced it you won't realise that no other sound on earth cuts through you and makes you anxious more than your babies/toddlers cry.

DD is 20 months and hasn't tantrummed over toast, yet. And when she does tantrum sometimes I'll ignore and distract others I'll hug and explain why she can't have what she wants, sometimes I just give in. Because more often than not you'll just want the screaming to stop and use whatever method is quickest to make it happen.

Plus yeah, being a Mum comes with a whole tonne of guilt. Guilt over every tiny little decision, mistake or issue. Hell I even feel bad when DD gets nappy rash. You get used to it though.

I'm a nanny.

I don't out up with it and neither do other nannies I know.

Middle ground with some other posters. Obviously there are times when you just want to Make It Stop. Mostly though we try to go the middle route. If you can calm down and ask nicely then yes I can get you another slice of toast. If you carry on screaming then no dos. I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine. And screaming is not the answer.

What TriskelArts said. Especially the last bit.

A lot depends on your child's personality too. My DD and DS would both respond differently to a toast being "wrong" scenario and so I'd tailor my response accordingly.

In general though, I'm an advocate of picking your battles and also of encouraging my children to do deals/ compromise where possible. And I think the way to encourage them to be kind and flexible is to be that yourself, as often as you can. So, I'd probably say something about wishing there was more bread but that not being possible and offer to cut the bread into a different shape instead.

I try to avoid getting locked into a battle of wills over the small stuff - I think it can set up an unnecessarily confrontational dynamic. If it's possible to meet in the middle, why not try to?

Also, it really depends what else is going on. I mean, generally I'm not an "ok, have more toast" parent. But sometimes, when it's 8am and we have to leave in half an hour, I know that if I stick to my guns one of two things will happen - either we'll be late because I've ridden out the tantrum and she's eventually deigned to eat the toast, and I'll be stressed from dealing with it, or we'll be on time, DD1 will be hungry all morning as she won't have had breakfast and I'll be stressed from dealing with it.

That's what picking your battles sometimes boils down to. Making another slice of toast really is the least worst option, it's just a piece of bread, and no one is stressed. You can guide small children to express their wants/needs/desires (which is what this sort of thing falls under; it's one other only aspects of control they have in their life) without a tantrum. And as long as they ask nicely then it really is just a piece of bread.

it's like it or lump it in our house. I don't put up with that. In that instance, I would ask whether or not they want squares or triangles, and if they don't like what they end up with, that's their problem. And tantrumming, which DD3 carries off with aplomb, gets them precisely nowhere.

It's hard though and I do manage situations to ensure we don't get to the tantrumming point.