So does no-one else leave their baby outside the shop in the buggy any more then?

[KathyMCMLXXII]

Just wondered because I am the only person I know in RL that does this!

I wouldn't leave him outside Sainsburys for an hour or anything, but when it's a little shop and either I'm only going to be a moment, or I can see out of the window, it doesn't bother me a bit.

Surely it's the easiest thing to do?

I left ds outside the charity shop yesterday.
I had a huge bag of donations to take in and didn't want to struggle through the tiny entrance, so left the buggy by the window and went in on my own. I could see him and I came straight out. Not sure I could have left him and looked around in there.

Love the stories of Mums 'forgetting'about babies. My mum did this to me, she left me in the garden when they moved house. My dad said 'are you going to get the baby in?' my mum said 'what baby?' lol. Apparantley I was a very quiet baby and slept most of the time!

A friend of mine lost her baby on the Tube. She had manoeuvred the pushchair into the train, other passengers helped her because it was crowded, then before she could get in herself the doors closed, and the train went off. She did get him back though

I leave mine outside shops that are difficult to get into, and in the car if they're asleep, but I lock it. I worry about them, but I'm pretty confident of the area I live in (in France) and I force myself to do it a bit, because I'm convinced things were no less dangerous in the 'old days', we just get told about it more now. And people get caught more (abusing children etc). I try to resist feeling like a potential victim. I feel the same about walking in the woods on my own- I worry a bit if I see a lone man, but I do it anyway.

Frida that sounds horrible for your poor friend...How did she get him/her back?

LOL MadameZ leaving sleeping baby to go to pub. DH suggested setting up webcam and using grandparents as remote babysitters so we could go for a pint

Would you leave sleeping baby in hotel room with baby monitor and go to bar/reataurant?

Thinking about what you said, madamez... A friend of mine was looking for a childminder recently - one of the childminders she saw told her that a room in her house was 'nice and safe and secure so the children will be OK if I have to pop out'. Needless to say, friend's baby will not be going there.

My mum came home from work one day (outrageous behaviour in 1970!)... to find my pram outside a shop and the childminder inside completely out of sight. She just wheeled me home......... I do understand why, but I cannot imagine the childminder got over hte shock very quickly and feel slightly sorry for her!

I don't leave ds anywhere for any length of time, whether it's here in Peckham, or in my MILs very chi-chi expensive "no crime for 15 years" surburb of Sydney.

Just ain't worth it.IMVHO.

With twins you often don't have a choice as a double buggy doesn't fit into all shops. The difficult thing is when I'm paying for petrol or have to leave the car to get a trolley at the supermarket. I can't safely carry them both at once so I often have to leave them in the locked car - I can't see the alternative? Singleton mums probably think this is terrible but the logistics of twins is often impossible!

I used to leave baby outside the dry cleaner's in massive pram, and once the shop assistant asked me if I wasn't going to bring the pram in, as all the other mothers did. I explained that the sudden change in temperature would wake the baby up.

Must admit I never thought of the possibility of a dog barking at the baby.

Don't leave your child(ren) in a locked car. Horribly dangerous. There was an incident of two children dying in a locked car when it went on fire.

The chances of someone getting into the car is vanishingly small but something could go wrong and you need to get your child out in a hurry.

I couldn't leave dd outside anywhere. I am in dodgy SE London but nevertheless I just wouldn't take the 10 000 000 to one chance that something might happen.

No never - I'd rather drive 15 miles to Tesco than leave a child outside a shop - you never know when someone dodgy is going to whip them away - it would only take a few seconds and they'd be gone.

Imaginaryfriend - there is a much higher than 10m to 1 chance of being involved in a car crash (as passenger or pedestrian), so do your dc never travel by car or walk on the public street?

Even if you stay at home and never go anywhere, there are dangers in the home. You cannot make your children's lives risk free, whatever you do.

Eulalia, the terrible case of the 2 children dying in a burning car happened when the mother left the engine running.

All we can do is choose the kinds of risks we expose our children to. My dc are a bit older now. The other day I allowed dd2 (10) and her younger brother (6) to walk together, without an adult to the local shops about half a mile away, with several roads to cross. However, I do bend over backwards to minimise the time they spend in the car and try not to take them on unnecessary car journeys.

never ever

I must say though Lucie, Tesco is v child friendly.

In terms of petrol forecourts, it is usually safer to keep the children in the car. The major petrol retailers don't want to put statements up in the UK due to the liability implications but overseas they will usually have signs up to that effect. Car parks and petrol forecourts are the most common scenes of car accidents, but as the car are moving slowly the damage to the cars is usually not critical to passengers inside. However small children who are walking across the forecourt, or getting in and out of cars are in more danger.

Of course stories of children getting bruised, or getting cut heads from being hit by truck doors opening, or having their feet run over are less likely to get into the press than when children die in a car fire.

I have to do it when I got to the butchers, as the shop is so tiny, and my double buggy is like a tank. It has a massive window and I can stand in the doorway & get served.
I have to leave the boys when I pay for petrol too. I hate to do it, but there are no pay at pumps round here.

Ladymuck - I agree it's probably safer to keep them in the car at petrol forecourts. My LOs, especially DS2, are very independant and hate to be carried. My biggest fear is that they would wriggle free and run in front of a car.

Eulalia - I presume you don't have twins? Getting two babies out of carseats, unloading the buggy from the boot, putting up the buggy, getting a double buggy across a forecourt and through a narrow doorway to pay, getting two babies back into carseats, folding up the buggy and hauling it back into the boot is a lot of disruption when I can watch them through the window while I pay.

The probability of my car catching fire during this 2 minute window is probably the same as being struck by lightening (or for that matter getting run over on a petrol station forecourt) .

I'm confused as to how all you lot who say 'no, never' manage not to, iyswim. We live on 2nd floor and have 2 ds, 16m and 9w. DS1 walks, but not confidently enough to get up the stairs on his own yet. Soooo, if we come home in the car, how can I get them upstairs without leaving one of them in the car while I whisk the other one up? Similarly at petrol stations or collecting ds1 from nursery. Of course, I worry and feel guilty about leaving them even for a second, but don't see what the alternative is? And yes, I'd love to move house

everyone in our local town does this but only outside little shops not tesco or anything.

glamourbadger I think eulalia was saying that you shouldn't lock the car, rather than that you should take the children with you. that's how I understood it anyway.

Can I ask something that I've been wondering about for a while? All of you who say, 'no, never, what if something happens, what about all the crazies out there etc', how do you ever leave the house? Statistically there is a far, far higher chance of you being involved in a car accident than there is of your child being abducted/ the petrol station exploding, etc but I doubt there are many people who consider that risk every time they get in the car. Considering most accidents happen withon a mile of home, how many people walk those ittle journeys, so reducing the risk of an accident?

I'm not getting at anyone, I'm just puzzled as to this hysteria about leaving kids unattended when the likelihood is so miniscule yet everyone quite happily piles their kids into cars several times a day.

According to Department for Transport figures 'the overall number of reported road casualties in 2003 was 290,607, of which 3,508 people were killed. The number of children killed or seriously injured in road traffic accidents in 2003 was 4,100. Of these 2381 were pedestrians. There were 171 child fatalities'.

Yet, for child abductions in the same year the NSPCC quote this: 'There were 59 cases in 2002/2003 in England and Wales involving a stranger 'successfully' abducting a child or children, resulting in 68 victims (9% of all recorded child abductions)'.

I'm no statistician but to me, being terrified of abductions etc doesn't make sense when there are so many more real dangers to our children in mundane day to day living. I'd be really interested in why this phobia of 'what could happen' is so fierce in so many of us.

I would love to but I'm in a city and absolutely nobody does it here.

I have a Shirley Hughes book and I think it's from the 70s. Any as baby is left outside the shop in that and there's a whole line of prams with babies out there chatting to each other in the picture.

It's so sad that we can't do this any more. Life is much more stressful these days.

OO

'Spiders on leads'

that image will stay with me forever

I completely agree with you Olihan. We all have to weigh up risks and make our own decisions. It's just that some risks are easier to avoid for some people's lifestyles, so they avoid them, whereas it might be harder to avoid others.

I think as a culture we massively underplay the risks of car travel, but overplay the abduction scenario. Also we underplay the 'my husband/brother/uncle could be abusing my children' and overplay the 'this stranger could abuse my children'.

Good post NUT. I totally agree.