Employer mumnetters - would you even shortlist someone for a job if...

[monkeytrousers]

...they had a good degree but no qualifications to speak of from school?

I was a very good student at school but was bullied so missed a lot in my final two years and left with hardly anything. Now I have a good degree but because of my history no GCSE's or A levels. I've been applying for so many jobs - all of which I'm qualified for - but haven't been short listed for any of them. I'm literate, which is hopefully obvious from my applications. Is it this or am I being paranoid?

I wonder if your lack of A levels might make then doubt your degree, mt? Maybe you should add an explanatory paragraph to your covering letter?

Them, not then, obv!

Maybe, but I've been told not to accentuate the negative and now I'm all confused

I think JanH is right - be upfront and then the question is answered before they think it !

Myself I think it is extremely disappointing that despite the fact that I am nearly 40, have three degrees - the latest being an MBA, yet I have been turned down be a couple of agencies and for several jobs because I failde two of my three A'levels - that was 22 yrs ago now - and my record since has been great - so WHY DOES IT MATTER ??

I think the simple answer is that it's an employer's market - and they can pick and choose - so sometimes they are looking for something to sift you out on !

If you have a degree potential employers will probably not even consider GCSEs or A Levels as all that important, unless you are aiming for a job in a very specfic discipline that asks for them.

Do you have work experience on your CV? If this is lacking I'd be inclined to think that this is what's holding you back. What is your degree in and what are the jobs you are going for?

Have you ever asked for feedback after a rejection?

It may be worth getting someone in advice and guidance to take a look at your CV for some pointers.

What a rotten pisser Scatterbrain. grr!

Sorry yackety - but that's simply not true !

They do look back to your school qualifications, my own experineces prove this and also one of my bfs - who nis a fully qulaified qccountant - she took 3 goes to pass Maths o'level though - and is often turned down because of this.

All you can do is be honest and hope for a break !

MT did you FAIL GCSE's or just get crap marks?

If you just got crap marks then I would put them down and leave out the marks

Same for A-Levels

No one has ever asked me what I got for GCSE's or A-Levels! (Although some applicaiton FORMS might specifically ask)

How did you get onto a degree course without A-levels?

Scatterbrain I'm not surprised that an accountant would be turned down for taking three attempts to pass a maths GCSE, tbh

Monkeytrousers are you applying with application forms or CV and covering letter? What kind of jobs?

FWIW I've never given any attention to GCSE/A-Levels, and wouldn't question it if they didn't appear on a CV - who gives a toss?

I'm more interested in professional qualifications, additional qualifications (stuff they've done off their own backs), and personal achievements and personal interests

AND ALSO

A lot of jobs I've shortlisted for we've had a checklist - so you get the Person Spec, you get the Job Description, and you see the person's application and LITERALLY give them 1 point for each item that they have matched on the job description and person spec.

So in teh part where it says "Tell us why you would be good for this job" etc. they need to read the job description, and literally write down point by point how they match this.

e.g. "the candidate must be is reliable, with good communication skills and with experience in a caring role."

application:
"- I am reliable and have an attendance record of 100% at my current job" (or other example)

• I have excellent communication skills and have received a certificate in presentation skills

• I have experience of caring with young children and older adults."

It doesn't matter if the person is a complete buffoon with no other experience, if they apply like this then it is easy to be shortlisted, purely on points. Shortlisting has to be fair and this is how I tend to do it now.

HTH

mp - yes but the fact is that her dad died during O'level year and something had to give. She is an excelent accountant never the less.

I do a lot of recruitment and interviewing and we use every shred of info we have - so if something at school looks awry it does cast questions over the whole picture unfortunately.

As I said - unless you are aiming for a job in a very specific discipline that asks for them. In my experience as an employer and a careers advisor a degree coupled with work experience trumps A Levels and GCSEs everytime. If you've got professional qualifications and work xp you can get away with saying you were "educated to A Level", forget about the results.

Unless the job specifies you need the A Levels!

Probably not relevant, since I'm not really an employer (I'm in HE). But if you had a degree I wouldn't even LOOK at what you'd done at school!

Dh has never had problems. He did OK in his O'levels, failed all his A'levels, worked for a bit and then did a degree (followed by a Masters and a PhD) as a mature student. He is now working in a job he enjoys, but which he could have applied for after A'levels. But no-one has questioned the fact that he doesn't have any.

DH also works in the public sector, though. I wonder if the big bad capitalist world out there () is less accepting!

Didn?t even sit any of them MP ? pathetic but true. And I missed so much school I was dropped into the CSE set (it was that long ago). So all I have are less than a handful of CSE?s which I know looks awful, but what else can you do, except lie??

Never did A levels as I went straight into acting, which means for over a ten year period all I can write is ?self-employed? because trying to list all the jobs, acting and temping stuff would be endless. I know people are looking for constancy, and as an actor I didn?t have that, very few actors do and if they do they don?t change careers.

I?m applying for arts admin jobs, all of them with application forms where CV?s don?t count. I am qualified though and also and have experience, just quite unorthodox, bohemian experience..Even if I missed school qualifications out it would look just as odd wouldn?t it?

Really MP, I hadn't realised how literal the job description and person spec was!

I would write this Monkeytrousers:

2003-2006: University of Oxford, BSc (Hons) Andrea Dworkins Studies

1986-1991: St. Richard's College, Bradford
1991-1993: St. David's School, Bradford

?

I know this is awful, but I would lie (if confronted by an application form which makes it impossible just to fudge around the issue)

Have you considered taking a couple of GCSEs now mt? I would imagine for an arts admin job that just being able to say that you have maths and english would go a long way, and I wouldn't imagine it would require 2 years ft study to get them at this point in your life.

PMSL MP!

Like that would get me anywhere but on the board of some radical lezzer group! (apologies to any lezzers reading)

Well Moley..it may come to that.

enter Xenia and Dominiconner stage right

But isn't that slightly absurd when mt has a good degree under her belt?

When I've been recruiting people, I've never worried about GSCE or A levels, only looked at career history/degree/professional qualifications.

In your shoes, I'd try really hard to remember some of the highlights of my acting career just so you have something to put down - some of the longest runs you did or best parts you had. Or some of the 'resting' jobs you had - waitressing, for instance, you could spin as demonstrating ability to communicate, build relationships, solve problems, handle difficult people and do maths all at the same time.

Hmmm....don't know an awful lot about arts and acting career type stuff, but it really might be a good idea to get a CV together which you can then use to transfer info onto application forms. Pay attention to job and person spec stuff as MP says.

Are there any agencies that deal specifically with the type of work you're interested in? Maybe you could talk to someone and they can help you word your CV with the right kind of language for the career sector?

www.workthing.com has loads of practical advice - and has specific examples of what employers are looking for in applications.

oh, I love you Moley. You are always there when I need you

It's the application form vs CV that's the problem, isn't it? Faced with an application form with big spaces where GCSEs and A levels should be, how many employers could just overlook the spaces?

I like molesworth's idea