My 4 month old daughter... Expecting too much too soon already?

[Staciiemummyof2]

hello

I'm new on here but need some advice/opinions/thoughts

My little girl is nearly 4 months old, wakes once in the night around half 2ish for a feed (it seems to be around this time most nights)
But the last previous nights apart from last night, she has her feed then wide awake and wants to chat and play for 2 hours around about roughly!
This is obviously frustrating for me as I have also a 18 month old little boy who sleeps from 7/7:30ish every night till half 6/7ish so when my little girl finally settled herself (which she is pretty good in doing) my son is going get up in the next hour or so and I'm still awake as I feel I can't sleep knowing she is awake. (She sleeps in her own room and cot... has done from about 3 months roughly now I think!)

Her routine roughly looks like this:

Wakes : Between 7:00-7:30
Dometimes she Doesn't want to feed straight away or she will but only have a couple of oz's out of 5oz's that's she has per feed.
Plays for abit after that then..
Feeds: Between 8:15/8:30 (rest of the 3oz's or 5oz's depends)
Naps: 9.00
Wakes: Between 11:15/11:30
Feeds: 11:30 (5oz's)
Awake for abit till about 1ish then has a nap.
Nap: 1ish
Awake and feeds:Between 3:00-3:30 (5oz's)
Has another little play whether it's on her play mat, bouncer etc.
Nap: Between 5-5:30
Wakes and feeds: Between 7-7:30ish (5oz's)
(This her last feed before she will go to bed about 8ish and sleep 6 hours)
Wakes: 2:30ish for the night feed 5oz's)

Then starts all over again... This just a rough idea on how she is at the moment.
Tried dream feeding her between 10/11 but doesn't make no difference as she she still will wake @ half 2ish for that feed whether she has has had 6oz's then or not.

My 18month old when he was @ my daughters age was sleeping through already by now but he was drinking more (Think it's a boy thing as they say boys are more hungrier then girls)
Also I know all babies are all different individuals.

So my questions are these?
1:Is she going to bed too early for her age?
2: Is she having too much sleep in the day or maybe not enough?
3: She naps on the sofa in the day but in her bed at night so shall I try her in her bed every time she naps? That way she will no this is where she sleeps?!

Anything else you may think may help etc please let me know as really appreciate it.

Thanks
:)

I would try to fit a 5th bottle in during the day. But it's difficult with your naps, I've just been playing around with your routine to see how I'd put a 5th feed in, but I can't work it out.

If it helps, I would do 4oz bottles (expecting 3-4oz to be drank) much more frequently. For example this:

7am wake
7am feed
8.50am feed
9-11am nap
11am feed
12.50pm feed
1-3pm nap
3pm feed
5.50pm feed
5-6pm nap
6pm feed
7.50pm feed
8pm bedtime

Your 4 bottles a day with 4-5oz being drank gives 16-20oz total. With the 6oz at night that's a total of 22-26oz in 24 hours

My 8 bottles a day with 3-4oz drank means 21oz-32oz given in the 13 hours of daytime.

More calories in the day = less needed at night.

This then provides a ready-made routine as you get to post-weaning, in each of those awake times one of those milk feeds becomes a solids meal and one stays as a milk feed. Then the milk feeds gradually dropped.

7am wake
7am feed Breakfast
8.50am feed
9-11am nap
11am feed Lunch
12.50pm feed
1-3pm nap
3pm feed
5pm feed Dinner
5-6pm nap (should be dropped)
6pm feed
7pm feed and bedtime

@FATEdestiny
Thank for such a detail reply.

It seems really good in what you've done and your right and made a great point actually as I've just realised she is only having 4 bottles in the day then the one in the night! (Maybe why she is waking up for that one?!)

It's a hard one!... Do I try with smaller feeds in the day but more bottles and milk? or up them to 6oz? (which at the moment she isn't having as tired a few times so not quite ready I don't think!)

Thanks everyone again for your help and advice!
She is currently having her afternoon nap now and went down @ half 12!

It's a hard one!... Do I try with smaller feeds in the day but more bottles and milk? or up them to 6oz?

It's clear from your routine that your baby likes feeds more spaced out instead of frequent like mine would. So I did spend a few minutes before posting trying to fit a 5th bottle into your day by, for example, making the gap between feeds 3h rather than 4h. But with your naps as they are, it just doesn't work.

Given you are already offering more in the bottle than baby will drink (as you should), I can't see a realistic way to increase the amount taken per feed. That's determined by stomach size and will increase only with growth, not by you doing anything.

So if you are currently giving 5oz feeds and having around an oz left over, all giving 6oz bottles will do is give you 2oz left over. But if baby starts draining the bottle, even just sometimes, then it's time for more milk per feed.

I think the answer will definaty be finding a way to get extra milk into baby in the daytime

(And I wouldn't restrict the teatime nap to 20 mins. 45 minutes maybe, certainly no more than an hour. But if I was limiting to only 20 mins I suspect baby would be less grumpy and over tired of the nap was skipped completely in favour of an earlier night)

@FATEdestiny

It's all trial and error with trying all different ways with this and I'm definitely up for trying them all it out.

Thanks again and will keep you all posted when I've figured it out!

!!!UPDATE!!!

I have just managed a dream feed tonight and pretty much all 5oz's gone!!!
(Changed her last feed to abit earlier and kept it to 5oz's)
So be interesting to see what happens from now...

Seee we are currently up feeding again at half 2!!! Doesn't matter I dreamt fed her she still woke..
Think I'm going to just go with her way tomorrow with when she wants feeding and see then!

So frustrating!!!!

It's not going to change in one night sadly! If you want to try something different give it 5 nights to see if any change.....

I had a terrible time, 4-6months with my dds sleep regression .
Also I'd try and drop that last map is possible (maybe bring bed time forward?)

When she wakes up at 2.30am, do you need to feed her after the dream feed? Shes maybe just waking up out of habit.

You could try just settling her back to sleep and see if that works.

I no it's not going to happen over night but even with dream feeding her and she went straight back down she still got up @ half 2 and fed again a whole 5oz's like in the dream feed.

I no you have to keep at it for her to know and learn but so frustrating!!!

How much effort did you put into resettling without feeding?

Just because she woke up does not mean she is hungry, especially given the dream feed.

@FATEdestiny

When she just moans and makes little noise I don't get up @ all to her and leave her to resettle as she does that during the day sometimes, but like I say half 2 comes around she makes little moaning sounds but then crys out I give her a few mins but still the same, I go to her and give her her thumb as she sucks that as not every time finds it but majority of the time she does and also maybe re arrange her as maybe uncomfortable but no she still crys out so I pick her up and when I give her that half 2 feed she did have the lot like she does...

It's frustrating but feeding only once (if you think you have to) during the night at 4 months is really lucky.
Either change it up and stick to it for a week or don't. It will pass it just feels really shit when you're in it x

What about a dummy? Would possibly be less likely to fall out as her wee arm falling down as she drifts off may pull her thumb out of her mouth?

All my friends I've spoke to have said that I shouldn't really be moaning!! Lol
As there babies didn't sleep through till 7 months and 13 months lol
But like I said to them I'm probably expecting it because of my son was sleeping through @ 3 months!

I'm wondering if she's going to bed to late? As yeah she has her last feed fine, a dream feed fine then again @ half 2 al fine drinks it all but then sleeps right up to 8-8:15ish (this is how it's been lately) and only has 3oz's?! Which being such a long period of time you would of though she be hungry and want the full amount... but nope!

No I'm not going to go down that route as I did that with my son and in the end I just had enough because he just kept waking it so went cold turkey with it and after 3/4 days he knew he didn't have it but he is also a thumb sucker too!

I used a sleepy tot for my little boys dummy and it was amazing for helping him find his dummy although he was about 10 months when I introduced it.
It made finding it himself so much easier so he could pop it back in. He was 20 months when he got rid of his, had a sore mouth and wouldn't suck it.

I do think that the small feed in the morning is due to not being hungry enough as being fed overnight. Although I realise it's easier said than done to not feed a baby when you know that this will settle them back to sleep.

I'll see how she goes today but I have to keep at it for her to get used to it and also not getting confused as I'm changing things to what she's used to.
She still only had that 3oz's and didn't want no more this morning for her morning feed and was back to sleep by half 9... she got up @ 8:15.
Her next feed is due half 11 so we shall see...

I forgot to say @Emma2803 she does have a comfort like thing like that to hold and snuggle too just with out the dummy attached

I think you need to drop the late afternoon nap or make it much shorter. Dream feeding didn't help me either, DS guzzled the milk and still woke for another feed!

If I were you I would try slightly rousing your baby for a feed at 10.30/11 and then putting back down - they have shown the can sleep for 6/7 hours without milk, you need to shift this 6 hours from 7.30 - 2.30am to 11pm - 6am

@umizoomi yeah think that's the problem the six hours isn't at the right place...
So shall just put her down like normal then wake her up rather then dream feed her? As that doesn't obviously work with her and going longer for a feed...

She's too young to coordinate her muscles and movements enough to properly across the comfort from a comforter yet. Exactly the same with thumb sucking.

You definately are expecting too much of your 4 month old to have the fine motor skills needed at 4 months old. Approximately 8-10 months old would be a better estimate (about the same time baby can learn to put own dummy in).

One (of the hundreds) of reasons dummies are amazing is that you can help baby to get that comfort from birth, pretty much.

Without the dummy, yes you will probably need to feed because the full tummy will be the crutch. Or may be rock, because movement helps too.

Personally, I'd be settling with a dummy where possible for over night wakes by this age.

Don't lose sight of the fact that you think she's tired, you put her down and she self settles. This seems really good going!

@RoganJosh Thanks! X

Yes do wake her up a bit, my son always woke he is a very light sleeper. I always fed him in our bedroom with the bedside light on just and always changed his nappy, can't remember if before or mid or after feed though. Probably mid. And then wind and back into cot and light out.
And then I went to bed shortly after.