Can't cope with my 6 year old daughter

[user1488408666]

Hi.
Don't know if I am looking for help or reassurance (dad not mum).
My 6 year Is full of anger and spite.
She keeps spitting at me and I keep over reacting.
I can't bear it and I react so badly and just make a bad situation worse.
She spat at me this morning because she was playing on her tablet. I asked her if she wanted milk with her breakfast and she didn't answer. I took her tablet away and was intending to give it back immediately that I got an answer but she went mental. Screamed and spat at me.

And I regret to say I went ballistic.

I love my kids so much but am struggling to cope with this.

I feel like I should move out sometimes and just pay for them without having to parent as I feel they would be better off if I wasn't around.

My wife does just a good job of parenting but I just can't seem to cope.

A bit of back ground.
Am a police officer. A couple of years ago whilst arresting a women she spat in my face (it went in my eyes) and told me she was HIV +.

Caused a bit of anxiety and was initially put on post exposure prophylactic drugs which made me very ill for a few days before they told me to stop taking it.
Then had to wait for blood tests etc.
Am in no way at all justifying my behaviour or the actions I took. Just explaining why I hate spitting so much.

We have made friends again and have spent the last hour with lots of fun and cuddles but still hate myself at this point in time.

I love my wife and kids so much and do about 40 % of the total parenting as shifts allow me to but I spend a lot of my time thinking I am the worst parent in the world.

Not looking for sympathy. Just hoping that there might be s bit of empathy out there

Everyone goes through trying times with their kids, we all loose our patience when pushed to the brink. We are human and can only take so much.
My worry would be, at 6, where had she has picked up spitting in someone's face from. The only child I know that has done this to their mother has behavioural issues, the school is involved and her mother gets extra support with her.
Are there any such issues with your dd?
It seems a real extreme reaction for a 6 year old.

Spitting is quite naughty. I find the book Divas and Dictators by Charlie Taylor really helpful and an easy read. The guy who wrote it runs a school for children excluded from other schools so really knows his stuff about dealing with behaviour. He uses quite positive methods of changing behaviour.

I spend a lot of my time thinking I am the worst parent in the world.

Don't we all!

You say you have "made friends". Did this include discussing with her what parts of your behaviour were unacceptable, and an apology, and an explanation of what parts of her behaviour were unacceptable?

I know it's an unpopular view on MN, but I am against taking their things from children.

In the case of the milk at breakfast, if she doesn't answer you, don't give her milk. If she complains, then say matter-of-fact-ly, "oh, you didn't answer me. Never mind, you can get some milk out of the fridge now."

Have a look at the book How to talk so your kids will listen, and listen so they will talk. I have found it really helpful.

I do agree with Frampton that spitting is extreme and wonder where she has got this from. What is she like at school. How does your wife react to it?

The first step is to stop going ape shit. It is not productive. And she's copying you. Think of a really nice fair even tempered colleague and model how they would deal with it. Reflect and plan what you will do next time.

You are right. I shouldn't go mental. Recently I have been managing to overcome and speak calmly but I don't know why I over reacted this morning.

School think she may have a slight behavioural issue and I will be taking her to a GP shortly to start the referral process.

Am at my wits end really and I am very probably the cause of it.

Sadly, when faced with extreme violence at work I am very calm, collected and very very good at talking people down.
Why I cant do that with my 6 year old I just don't know.

Will definitely checkout the books mentioned and do my best to keep calm.

Having a short temper is the worst part of my personality. Thanks for all your comments.

6 yr olds are the pits, ime.
You & your wife need to agree what response to have to the spitting & other regular behaviours. Then you follow it like a regulation procedure. If your in the police, then you get regulation & rules.

Just wanted to reassure you that this is completely normal - not necessarily the spitting, but the bit about remaining calm and in control at work and getting wound up by your 6yo. Parenting is hard! You definitely won't become a better parent by moving out though. Hang in there.

Agree with darkflood about how your own child can make even the most laid back person (me in our situation) suddenly become short tempered. I have a 6 year old daughter who is very strong willed and is usually a lovely person but sometimes does push the boundaries. It's partly their age, the personality and their peers as well as copying what you do as the parent. I've got a couple of books like the one mentioned above -how to talk so kids listen etc and also raising your spirited child, both are good for teaching different techniques and helping you or to have an extreme reaction. It's difficult, I've been where you are and each new phase of development brings it new challenges but I'm getting better and I'm sure you will too

Have you sat down in a quiet room and really talked to your daughter about this? She goes mental and spits, you go mental because you've been spit at. After a while, it blows over and you're cuddling, but what has she REALLY learned from this? Talk to her about how spitting is not allowed, and there will be serious consequences of she does it again. No tv, tablet, whatever. Then talk about your behaviour and how it makes you feel so awful. Let her know that you regret flying off the handle like that, but her behaviour makes you very upset. You need to communicate.

Hey.

I sat her down yesterday on my lap and had a really good talk.

I said to her that when gets angry that we will deal with it by way of taking (calmly) to her room to cool off for a few minutes with her massive fluffy unicorn before comi g back down when she is ready.

As for spitting I said to her (calmly) that if you spit at anyone then you are not welcome with us for a bit and that I would take her to her room, cuddle her and reassure her, then leave her there until we ask her back downstairs.

She seemed happy and understood it.

Later in the day she did spit at me so I took her by the hand, firmly but not harshly and took her to her room explaining that she needed to calm down. She then throw a bit of a tantrum as I left forgetting to hug her so I had to run back in and do that. I left her there for about 15 minutes and she came back down and all was calm.

So I guess that's progress.

Infuriatingly, about a year ago when I was again finding it really tough I sat her down and said "I have tried everything. I have been super super nice, I have been friendly, encouraging, given lots of cuddles, praise, rewards, bribery, annoyance, shutting you in your room, anger, losing my temper, screaming at the top of my voice, super super angry and you still don't listen".

She looked at me very earnestly and said "well daddy you had better think of something else"!!!
FML

As someone who worked in the police myself I have the same thing about spitting I'd rather be punched out cold than spat at.

6 year olds can be huffy little bundles of strop! You're not alone.

Think about how you'd deal with this situations at work, how you'd use your people skills to calm It down

Failing that lock her in a cell...that's a joke

What exactly happened when you went ballistic? Do you mean you shouted at her? Did you appear out of control? As others said, what do you think she is learning from your reaction?

What I would do is two steps here. First I would issue warnings before taking something off her or in any way interacting physically, simply because it seems to trigger both of you. So instead of reaching out and snatching the tablet, I would tell her she has to give it to me, then tell her I am going to take it.

Secondly, I would work out a strategy for dealing with triggers. Walking away, or practising a set phrase that you are going to use for telling her off, anything that ensures that you are not at risk of losing control.

I used to walk out and put on the radio (or the kettle) when I felt the risk of losing control.

It is unfortunate that your experience in the past has made spitting a trigger, but that is not your dd's responsibility. She is doing something naughty- spitting is naughty- but no more or less naughty than any other child whose father was not a police officer. So you need to find a way that deals with her actual bad behaviour before you have time to react to your own past.

Cross-post. Seems you have a plan then.

I quite like the "you better think of something else" as annoying as it is 😂. My DD has additional needs and has been a challenge . Like you at work I am calm and collected , deal with conflict very rationally but when they are your child your emotionally attached you can't always detach. I would recommend -
Don't lose your shit, act completely indifferent when she's behaving like that. I'd do as you do without the hug 😳 I'd save the hug for after time out and apology. Just persist it will take a while , DD kicks against any sanction for weeks before she realises its not open for negotiation. Spitting is gross alongside time out I'd remove something (tablet) for 24 hours but maybe I'm to harsh.

Yeah dd had had similar problems with dgc, screaming for nothing and getting into a right state. She really struggles and is not the most patient person!!!

Spitting.

Are we talking spit being pushed out of her mouth and down her face deliberately?
(This is what my 7 year old would call spitting)

Or spittle coming out as she talks/shouts?
(Unavoidable, learn to shout less)

Or deliberate forceful spitting?

Forceful spitting is dreadful. And it's learnt behaviour - where has she learnt to do this and think it's ok?

If my child swore at me, it would get the same reaction. Zero tolerance, absolutely unacceptable and must never, ever happen again.

The fact she's spat is bad. The fact she has spat more than once is dreadful.

I wouldn't ever mix a hug or cuddle in with the start of a time out. The end, yes. But the start, no. Unless it's a very young (less than 2.5) overwhelmed tantrum where they need that connection.

Same with sitting on your lap for a serious talk. Your boundaries are fuzzy, not firm. Hence her overstepping them. Majorly.

FATE, she doesn't necessarily have to have learnt it from anyone. Children can work these things out for themselves and if she has some learning difficulty she may be more anxious/aggressive than other children.

My dd used to bite and kick. She grew up in a very calm environment and had never been exposed to violence. In her case, the violence came from a place of severe anxiety. It would have been impossible to have punished it out of her without actually killing her: she simply did not respond to toys being confiscated or being grounded - and I can assure you I never reneged on any threat of that kind. The best we could do was to stay absolutely calm and make sure she was prevented from hurting other people, if necessary by restraining her.

Yes, it was dreadful. But you have to deal with the child you've got, not the child you think you ought to have.

And I am proud to report that dd has grown into a very mature and self-controlled and considerate adult, though she is still on medication for severe anxiety. Hand-wringing and talking about how dreadful it was wouldn't have helped any of us at all. Actual strategies for dealing with the situation did.

That' a good start but most child psychologists and parenting 'experts' agree that time outs are not good and actually damage your relationship with your child. Even if you still choose to use them (time to cool off is better than screaming at each other) 15 minutes a very long time to leave a child as young as 6.

Thanks for all advice.
I have no idea where she has got spitting from. We are very careful about what she watches on tv and won't expose her to anything she shouldn't see.

Today was an under day and my wife was working late.

Today we have had four separate spitting incidents, each one over nothing, and each time I have calmly removed a favourite toy for 24 hours and calmly taken her to her room to cool off.

Have not lost my shit at all today but could feel myself starting to get angry so managed it.

I am running out of toys to take away now.

Spitting appears to be her go to now of she doesn't get her own way.

Very worrying with school restarting tomorrow.

Am going to get a go appointment as soon as shifts allow.

At my wits end and my youngest gets a bit left out as the spitter takes up so much of our time to manage and control.

under. No idea. I hate predictive text.

Do you think it might be attention seeking behaviour?

First of all, feel the support. 6 year olds are a nightmare - it is a developmental phase. My DS was a demon incarnate at that age. 123 Magic is brilliant. And this too shall pass...

Spitting is a fairly instinctive thing to do; I don't think there needs to be any particular reason why she tried it once. The reason she persists is probably because she senses that this (for reasons she doesn't understand) gets a rise out of you.

So the first thing I would work on would be to take that away. Try your hardest not to show that spitting is different from other bad naughtiness. It needs to be dealt with because it is naughty, because there is a scale of naughtiness that she needs to learn to understand. But try to keep your personal reaction out of it insofar as you can.

And I really don't think 15 minutes in her bedroom is going to do her much harm. Not all child psychologists are against it, and the ones who are have mainly been talking about its overuse and about potential harmful effects on children under 3.