Remember believing you could have a life and a baby?

[CookingCabbage]

Just chat really.
My pregnant friend recenty asked me what it is REALLY like having kids (I have two). So I told her the truth about how I have no 'me' time whatsoever as 1yr old does not nap, or go to bed until 9pm. I am always with children/child as no help from relatives. At weekends I get a few hours if my DH takes them, but that's usually spent catching up on chores.

Then I saw the look on her face. She told me I was scaring her and said: "Well as long as I get to work from home, that's the important thing". I think I involuntarily laughed/scoffed before pulling my face back into a serious expression (because she was defo very serious about this). I back-tracked and said it would be OK for her, because "remember I have two kids, which is harder".

Inside I am remembering how demanding a baby is and wondering whether she will realistically be able to continue her quite demanding home-working position, whilst also looking after a child at home. I did not want to be the person being negative at a time when she is excited and positive about being a work-at-home-mum.

I can also remember completely under-estimating how time consuming raising children would be. I feel as if my life has sort-of been put on hold. If anyone has worked out how to 'keep themselves going' whilst having two kids and no help, any advice would be appreciated!

I remember my sister saying she was going to start a Masters when she was on mat leave for a year. She got really pissy with me when I howled with laughter.

She didn't do it, funnily enough.

It depends what sort of baby you have and what sort of partner you have. Can't do anything about the former, can do something about the latter.

It's obviously hugely influenced by the type of baby and whether they sleep a lot or have colic or other issues.

It's a shame though that mothers feel the need to be so defensive about it and rather than coming across as being supportive by giving their friends some insight into how hard it can be, it comes across as taking offense that anyone thinks they might find it possible to work with a baby.

I've experienced similar disbelief at how I think I am possibly going to cope with a baby without a DP (I'm single). I'll somehow have to cope on my own because I'll have no other choice.

It seems to come from the same place as some women wanting to recount their labour horror stories to you once they find out you're pregnant or tell you about their friend whose child was stillborn.

There's a balance to be struck between forewarned is forearmed, and just trying to scare the shit out of pregnant women.

Really didn't think I was being mean at the time. I was a bit shocked that she was shocked by my answer, and it reminded me how clueless I'd been too before children. I told the truth about what it's like for me (she asked for honesty about having TWO children). I haven't put the whole conversation above, I also talked about the good bits - how they play together and that it's all worth it, etc. I did not know she was planning to work from home when she asked the question. She has no childcare help.

She has her own business that she started about a year ago. It takes up a lot of her time and is quite demanding.

It sounds like there are mixed experiences - with some people saying they pulled working from home off and others not. My babies were not easy, so hopefully my friend will have a baby that sleeps a lot.

They've set up a nursery and cot and expect the baby to actually sleep in it and stuff.

My baby went into a cot from birth (although right next to my side of the bed). I didn't mess around with Moses baskets or sleepyheads or anything like that either.

Op, your friend will find her own way. Bits of parenthood come as a surprise to us all. I had so many amusing ideas of parenthood, but I really haven't found it as bad as everyone made it out to be. I'm breastfeeding and have done every nighttime waking since DS was born, and although I've occasionally been very tired, it's really not as bad as I was expecting (though teething is a challenge!).

Still not made a dent in all the kindle books I downloaded to read in all my free time on maternity leave though!

What I meant by no life, is that I don't have time to do things that are just for me. Of course I enjoy spending time with the children. But I REALLY miss time for me. My house is constantly an absolute state and I can't keep on top of it. DH does stuff too, but I feel we never get to do a really good clean or tidy. Any spare time I have is spent doing the house.

I used to play piano, paint, listen to a lot of my own music, watch what I wanted on the TV, paint, sing in a band, have a job, go to the gym. I really now miss not doing these things. My children want my attention (of course). I gave up rehearsing with a band when I had two children as you need time at home to write the music, practice, and then I'd end up cancelling the odd session because my DH was working late or I'd realise at the last minute I'd run out of formula milk (I breastfeed), so couldn't go. The band were not too happy about that.

I don't think it's 'being a martyr'; it's the truth about how I feel and how things are.

Well done to those of you who worked from home and had the kids at the same time. Perhaps your children played by themselves or slept. Mine don't.

The competitive misery of parenting really winds me up.

The moment I got pregnant people felt compelled smugly inform us how we should:

• Sleep now... because we'll wish we had
• Get used to not doing anything we enjoy ever again
• Get used to being tired, because we'll never know tiredness like it...

OH BORE OFF!

Of course she doesn't reliably sleep - because she's 2 months old. So yes, I'm tired.

Sometimes she cries and it takes me ages to ether work out what's wrong, or for whatever it was to pass naturally while I try to fix it is a process of elimination... but she's only very tiny and she smiles and tries to laugh and learns a new thing every day.

I agree that I couldn't effectively study for a masters/PhD/work from home while I'm looking after her - but we go to the park, we meet friends, eat lunch and drink coffee, we go to baby groups and classes, in general we have a very nice time together.

I think you were right in telling her what the truth is about having kids for you - she asked for your opinion and she got it. Your friend sounds deluded. I don't know anyone who didn't think along those lines while pregnant, and I don't know anyone who didn't have to admit they were deluded once the baby was born. I'm glad no one told me how easy having kids is, it would have made me feel a right failure (and I don't consider my kids difficult).
I really can't imagine working from home with two small kids, but it probably depends on the job. If you can interrupt any time you want, it might work. Otherwise, it must be super stressful, even if you just plonk your kids in front of the telly. After all, they will still want attention at regular intervals, even if it's just for a short time.

Oh Cabbage I feel bad now for the 'BORE OFF' comment (though not directly aimed at you) - I can see you're feeling pretty miserable about the things you used to do but don't have time for now. I do get that.

But know that your current experience of child rearing will not be everyone's and will likely not be the same in a few weeks as everything can turn in a second, and every challenge passes.

I remember pregnancy clearly (as it was so recent) and remember feeling really worried and patronised and saddened by all the parents I knew spouting about having a really horrid time and how I was going to have an awful time too.

Most of us who work - properly work, not 'get a bit of work done' - from home need childcare. I worked four full days from home from four months old, while my kids were with their lovely childminder. I accept that some people are happier to work fewer hours or a more broken-up day: I wasn't.

Seriously OP, your DH needs to step up with the childcare if you're finding you have no time whatsoever to do anything for yourself. I had a Velcro baby who didn't sleep for more than 2 hours at a time til he was 6 months old, and then never right through the night until he was 2, but my DP would look after him so that I could get to the gym twice a week. It was my time to myself and I'd have gone mad without it. Also, if it's affordable, is a weekly cleaner an option?

I think it's the pfffffffffft what a naive idiot ha ha ha ha element that's unnecessary.

Fair enough some people have a hard time. I certainly appreciate the intention of people who said/say "it's ok to find it hard" or the honesty of people who admit they miss doing X,Y.Z. But that's very different to the you're happy and optimistic about parenthood. Ha ha ha you'll see, what a fool type stuff

I don't think 'ha ha you'll see, what a fool' at all. Not one bit.
I hope she has an easy baby. But I also think it will be harder than she is expecting. There was no snideyness in our conversation.

I don't think you were being mean at all.

She asked for your honest take on how you felt - you gave it to her.

Better that than everyone pretending that it's a breeze.

When I went on maternity leave with my first, I had all sorts of plans: help my husband set up his business, do a couple of OU courses. Haha what a joker I was.

I'm self-employed, 2 dc. I've worked from home (20-30hrs pw) since they were both small babies. And have used childcare from the start. There is NO way I could have worked the job I do while they played beatifically around my feet as babies/toddlers. And even if the job didn't require me to be online/participating in conference calls/focusing intently all the time, I still don't think I'd have managed to get anything done. My dc were both very high needs as babies.

I really can't imagine working from home with two small kids, but it probably depends on the job. If you can interrupt any time you want, it might work. Otherwise, it must be super stressful, even if you just plonk your kids in front of the telly. After all, they will still want attention at regular intervals, even if it's just for a short time. - yes, scrumptious that's it exactly: on occasion when they had to be at home with me as babies/toddlers it was so stressful. The TV only lasts so long and I felt constant guilt.

As for having a life, I think the OP's getting a hard time. I'm happy with my life, relatively speaking, now mine are a bit older and less needy. The first year with each was proper hell, particularly with the second and life was absolutely joyless. Since then though I've been a lot more content - clawing back sleep and independence makes such a difference. Sometimes I am accused of making things look easy which I find hilarious. I find it hard. It's just that I found the first years SO hard that little can scare me now (until teenage years of course)

Anyway IMO the working from home thing entirely depends on the kind of job you have and the kind of baby you get.

I absolutely could not work from home with my attention actually on my work. Even if you do have children who play quietly - don't they deserve your actual attention?

I'm one of those derided parents that is a SAHM in the day, and works in the evening. It works for me because I just couldn't get my work done in the day and am lucky in that as long as I meet my deadlines, I can work whenever. And I just couldn't work and not give my children my attention. I don't feel hard done by. These were all my choices:

To have children
To quit my job and stay at home
To also want to carve out a self employed business in something that I love doing/ find interesting/ feel fulfilled intellectually by.

I did somewhat naively think I could do a lot of work at home, with the children, once I had children. Maybe when you have one tiny baby that fulfills certain caveats like is happy in a sling whilst you sit at a desk. But even at four months plus, you begin to realise they are not as amenable as they once were. And even the most chilled out, easy going toddler able to play independently deserves a lot more engagement from their primary carer than a parent working from home is able to offer.

So you either need childcare or to work when you are child free - early morning/ nap times/ evening. Either choice is totally - and obviously - absolutely fine but it's not mean to gently point out it's naive to think you'll be able to work from home without childcare if you want to/ need to work regular 9-5 hours. Isn't it obvious children need attention/ socialisation/ engagement/ learning through play/ trips to the park and playgrounds / fresh air and exercise/ excitement and joy from trips to museums of playgroups or whatever? How do you fulfil those needs if you work 9-5 from home? Just becsuse the child might seem ok playing at home by themselves with the tv on doesn't mean their needs are being fulfilled.

I chose to work in the evenings and snatching hours here and there, the advent of smart phones has meant I can meet my clients' needs ad hoc through the day via email or a quick call while I'm in the playground. Like another poster, I grab hours early in the morning. Somehow I manage 20+ hours a week. This is fine with me. I am also getting all my needs met. It's not martyrdom to me - I recognise the privilege of choices and flexibility I have in my life to be able to work it all out like this. But I hold my hand up and admit I was woefully naive to think I could do regular work hours with children, without childcare. If I didn't have the flexibility I have, I would certainly have childcare.

You can, but it's a lot easier when you only have the one.

I remember reading somewhere, years ago, that you can have two of lots of family time, a career and a good social life. In my experience, and that's with lots of support and financially fine, that rings true. I just don't have the energy to tick all three boxes.

Thing is, you can't tell anyone else what parenthood will be like because they won't be having your child. And they won't be you. Some children are easier than other children, some parents have more energy than other parents, some jobs have aspects to them that can be done in the odd snatched moment, and some things are just so vital to some people that they can't give them up whatever happens.

My dd was disabled and very, very clingy, but I still never had a time when I wasn't reading books, because I needed to read to relax, and I needed to work on my own book, even if it did take me nearly a decade to finish. I needed that more than I needed a tidy house.

Some people I knew managed less in similar situations, some managed more. No point in my trying to tell them what they should or should not be managing.

did I say nearly a decade? nearly two decades is what I should have said

Cory is right, it all depends on the child.

I'm absolutely honest when people ask me. My baby is hard work. He's a pleasure to call my own, but I have to give him most of my time or else, imo, I wouldn't be a great mum to him. This is not about taking him to coffee shops or whatever, this is the fact that he's now an active boy who doesn't stay still and has dropped a percentile in weight so most of my time is spent feeding him and running after him. I'm in a daze most days. And all this after him being a fussy, but not colicky, baby who wouldn't go to anyone, not even his dad. He's not even 1 yet and the thought of going back full time is both the best thing ever (he's all yours Nana) and the worst thing I can imagine.

I don't think all babies are equal. So it stands that not all mothers can equally 'have it all', so to speak.

Totally depends on the child.

My bf thought it was all about having the right attitude, her first baby was a dream, just slotted into what they wanted to do. Nothing prepared her for her raging, demanding, number 2. A few years later I had my first, expecting to be able to carry on as normal, hand the dc over to others when I needed to. I loved being pregnant. Nothing prepared me for my own screaming, raging, bundle - OR the way my own hormones tied me so effectively to it. My own no2 was a sleeping, contented, "easy' baby. Just totally different personalities.

They are adults now and I can honestly say that they have continued to be very different people. You have to engage with the baby you get, they are not a blank slate.

Depends on the child and depends on circumstances and, as Cory says, depends on you. I cannot cope without reading and writing so those stayed, but I cut every cuttable corner on food.

I get the general drift and yes life changes but not all of it is similar you know .

Our 14 month old sleeps perfectly 7-7 each night in his cot, we have a fab childminder, both work fulfilling professions and my career has really taken off even more after maternity leave.

Yes we are exhausted. Yes our social lives have changed, but it's not all chaotic and lots of things have really improved including my productivity in terms of my protession.

Things are different

Re: the OP, a one year old who does not nap and goes to sleep at 9 (I'm assuming with a 7 am-ish waking) is VERY unusual and probably hugely overtired.