So it took 2 hours to pat my toddler to sleep last night

[ElleDubloo]

This is a "what would you do?" scenario.

Let me preface by saying, 2 year old DD has never had great sleep. When she was a baby we tried sleep training (gently and inconsistently) but when things got difficult she always breastfed to sleep in our bed. After the age of 1, she started sleeping horizontally and kicked DH throughout the night until he had neck problems, so we started putting her to sleep in our bed but then moving her across to the cot when she fell asleep. She continued to wake 1-2 times per night, when either the nanny would get up and pat her back to sleep in her cot, or me/DH would bring her into our bed (we both work long hours so there's only a certain amount of night-time crying we can tolerate).

Since she turned 2 several weeks ago, we've been putting her to sleep in her own cot. Routine thus:

• Shower/bath.
• Nappy and pyjamas.
• Milk.
• Cuddles and book.
• Brush teeth.
• More cuddles and book.
• When DD agrees, DD goes into cot.
• Patting and singing for 30-60-120 mins until DD falls asleep.

She doesn't cry during this routine, it's all very peaceful, but we are NOT ALLOWED TO LEAVE THE ROOM at any point or all hell breaks loose.

Last night I patted her for 1.5 hours before I got fed up and left. She had a melt-down. DH then went in and patted her for another half hour before she fell asleep.

I hear rumours of children who fall asleep in 20 mins after a cuddle and a story. I'd be happy for her to do this. How do I make her do this please.

And just to let you know the outcome of the above rule in our house, 1yr old goes down and I'm out of the room within 10seconds. 2yr old tries it on every night but at most I have to stick my head in once and tell her off for shouting, so typically it takes me 2 mins to finish story and get out. 3yr old takes as long as it takes for me to finish enjoying our end of day chat with him but if I tell him it's bedtime he complains but I'm still out of there in 30seconds.

All the above took hard work and sticking to the rules even when they are as good as gold. I am totally flexible of course if anyone seems ill.

Totally agree Inthenick. We are the adults and they are children who need opportunities to learn; in this instance how to go to sleep by themselves.

Whatever you decide to do; you need to be consistent; so stick to something you feel comfortable doing and carry it out consistently every night - that way you're not sending mixed messages and DD understands what is expected of her and what you will do/what will happen etc.

I have a 19mth old and three year, and bedtime is bath, pjs, 2 books with a drink of milk, teeth, hugs and kisses, then bed. They're in bed for 7 or shortly there after. They're asleep pretty quickly (neither child sleeps the whole night, so we've not got it totally easy).

Two year olds are pretty smart and from my limited experience, she's got you wrapped around her little finger is she's got you farting around for 2 hours a night. Two year olds are old enough to understand that night time is for sleeping, and bedtime is for going to sleep.

Honestly, I'd be pretty radical. Books, teeth, etc then it's into bed and you leave the room. There'll be a lot of screaming but its a pissed off screaming, not anything really wrong.

This was us until recently.

The days he doesn't nap or just catches 20mins in the car he was/is now out like a light.

Basically something changed a couple of months ago and he now lets us leave the room as long as we check him every so often and falls asleep himself. We did nothing to encourage it, I just tried it one day and it worked. He can still take a while to drop off (even if very tired/bed later) but at least I don't have to sit in the dark for hours while he does. Hes 2.5 now.

I was like this myself till age 4
Never did it with my children, kiss goodnight turn out light leave room 2 mins tops. I couldn't be bothered with all this singing and patting and missing my own evening. Seriously! Grown ups need down time or time to clear up, make packed lunches etc

My son got like this when his baby sister came along. For the record, you don't have to stop the stories/ stroking etc. But you do have to be firm.
I told him we're having 3 stories. One sitting up, one lying down, one with the lights out. After that, no talking, crying, moving. It worked. Once or twice he moved or cried so I left. I came back after a minute, but he hated it.
He has been in a bed from 18mo. He's now nearly 3 and I still sit with him until he's asleep. We both love it, and it doesn't take long.
Good luck.

Oh my word. Sorry about whatever happened earlier upthread - I tried to quote and reply to everyone individually, then had to rush off to a GP appointment, and didn't realise it had posted

HeyRoly
Also agree that the patting and singing is probably preventing her from falling asleep. - Got it. Will definitely stop patting and singing! In my defense, when I stop patting her, she usually sits bolt upright like a meercat and says "mama pat pat" and points to her bottom. (It's sooo cute)

WheresTheEvidence
Unless you're paying your nanny 24hours a day then she shouldn't be getting up in the night to settle your child OR do you mean when your nanny has proxy/parented?
Nanny does this of her own volition. DD's room is between our room and Nanny's room, so it's a case of which of us can drag ourselves out of bed first.

Artandco
Also at 2 years many are potty trained, sinners to be able to get up themselves to wee. If yours isn't yet it will be soon so it's better to takes sides off first - Very good point.

HeyRoly
So I would look at her nap habits.
idontlikealdi
How long / what time does she nap? - Usually for an hour or two in the afternoon, any time between 14:30 - 17:00. I know this is a bit late.

Inthenick, Scotinoz and other posters:
Yes, I see that now we have to lay down the rules and stick to them. Sometimes we still think of her as a baby. I don't think we realise how much she understands, and when she behaves as though she doesn't understand it's usually that she does but she's choosing to ignore. Reading about your amazing bedtimes makes me determined to try again. I think it all started when she was a baby and we were terrified of her developing a fear of abandonment. But obviously she's more than old enough to understand now...

So this is what we're going to do, starting tonight:

• Tell her she needs to fall asleep in her own room.
• Adult leaves the room after one cuddle and one story.
• No patting or singing.
• Leave her to cry for the first night.
• We are(?) allowed to pop in at times to reassure her, but we have to leave her to fall asleep by herself.
• Move nap times earlier and shorter.
• Take the cot sides down and install a stair gate.
• Remove distracting toys from room.

How does that sound?

What's the strategy for night-time wakings?

I think sometimes you can be so tired and so beaten down by the relentlessness of parenting that the effort involved in making a change can seem insurmountable. I myself was posting on here only three weeks ago, trying to fortify myself with making this big change. It can seem so hard to do. I was inexplicably nervous, which is ridiculous - I have a four year old, I'm supposedly experienced

OP lots of good advice here. Decide how you're going to play and stick to it. That's the important part. If she's crying - which is agonising to hear - pop in to quickly reassure but do not engage beyond a VERY quick "mummy loves you, night night." if she sounds particularly anguished. Steel yourself for a few evenings of to-ing and fro-ing, sit outside her room with your phone or Kindle and be prepared for LOTS of intervention.

I was very against CC or CIO with my children. But you can reason/ explain with a two year old. It's not CC or CIO. It's firmly but gently/reassuringly letting her know what the boundary is. You will win. You WILL win. You have to

Ooh cross posted! Yes that sounds fine The key is partly your determination. No matter how many times you have to reassure her. Mummy is downstairs. It's sleep time now.

My Dd still wakes in the night but we've moved to this quick in/out technique for night wakings now too. Which is frankly amazing.

Your new routine sounds good. My 20 month old will now go into his cot awake and then go off to sleep on his own. It hasn't always been like that! If I were you I would lay her down say night night and leave. If you have to go in again, go in lay her down and leave. Keep repeating this. You don't need to leave her to cry if you don't want.
At 20 months mine understands a stern 'lie down and go to sleep' so yours should easily understand at 2!
Good luck.

Good Luck! Be strong and stay committed to it - see it as over by Friday.

The nap is waaaaaaay too late. I always woke mine by 130 to aim for 7 pm bed.

I don't leave mine crying for long if they at bedtime, only a couple of minutes. i just pop in, quick hug with them still in bed and tell them a firm "It's night time, time for sleeping, mummy loves you, see you in the morning".

During the night, I kind of ignore any crying etc for at most five minutes to see if they resettle. Sometimes, they have a bit of a cry for a minute or so then asleep again, which I think is just moving between sleep cycles.

Two year olds are smart and great at stalling...drinks, covers, teddies, hugs, etc!

I agree idontlikealdi Ops child dos nap quite late - however most 2 year olds nap 1-3pm. I would make sure they were definitely no more than 2 hour nap and awake by 3 though for a 7pm bedtime.

You've got a lot of good advice here already, but I sympathise. When you have a children who doesn't sleep well, it's hell.

I think you're just going to have to saddle up for a few rough nights until she gets the message. Explain that she's a big girl now, and mummy and daddy are going to give her a kiss and then head out at bedtime. I'd set up a star chart system for going to bed nicely? Re your routine...

I would suggest: milk, then teeth, book cuddles and bed. When you say, not when she agrees - you're the mum and it's when you say so, not when she agrees. Be matter of fact, "pick two stories darling, and then then it's bedtime". Prep for what's next, "OK, teeth then stories!", "when we finish this story it's time for bed".

And then just be prepared for a few nights of mega meltdown before things calm down. When she gets out of bed, first time, return with no eye contact and just say, "it's bedtime darling" and pop her back in bed. Second time, same deal, then every time after that, it's just straight back to bed with no further commentary.

Good luck OP! Just think about how much better you'll feel when you get your nights back!

I've been there. ..eventually I left my ds age 2 crying and went and ate dinner ..went back in and out and eventually qe did break the whole patting to sleep.

I wpuld also cut the nap to an hour.

We stay with DD (almost 4) as she goes to sleep (let's ignore that for now!). How long it takes is wildly variable, but very much linked to how tired she is. DD goes to sleep much later than many, but we'd noticed that we needed to leave at least 4 hours between the end of her nap and when we wanted her to go to bed, unless we wanted a very protracted bed time. So perhaps worth looking at naps to try to help her go to sleep in a shorter space of time.

We have two single mattresses in DD's room, and had a bed plus cot in there until she outgrew the cot. That makes it much easier for us to stay with her as she goes to sleep, though she has never appreciated being patted. We've chosen not to leave her to cry, but I can completely understand why you might!

How was the night, OP?

How did it go?

Surprisingly good!
I did the bedtime routine as usual but refused to pat or sing to her. She lay on her front with her bottom in the air, and I sat next to her in silence for about half an hour, trying to decide when to leave. Then she started messing about, raising her legs into the air and sticking them through the bars in her cotbed. So I told her I'm leaving her to fall asleep by herself and I'll be nearby. After I left she cried for about half an hour - not too angrily, just moaning and quite tired-sounding. Then she fell asleep at about 21:45. During the night she woke once, cried for about 10 mins which I ignored (out of exhaustion rather than conscious choice) and she stopped after that!

I think previous posters have been entirely right - she knows exactly what's going on :p

I'm working till 21:00 tonight so I hope nanny continues doing what I started :)

That great. Next time leave quicker but what a difference!

Don't take sides off cot til you have a good routine!!!!
We had to take the sides off my now 21 months cot at 17 months as she kept climbing out and now she won't stay in the bed.

She also hates when we leave her and won't go to sleep before 9pm but we've slowly graduated from the side of her bed to the door to the hall with our feet in the door and then being on the other side of the door frame into the hall with no feet.

She is settling quicker without us in the room and has been waking less frequently during the night. It's been hard as she gets distressed but it'll be worth it in the end.

Can you try gradual withdrawal while she's still in the cot?

How was last night>> :)