the big smacking debate part two

[glitterfairy]

This thread is too big now so have started a new one as this discussion is really important I think anyway.

Absolutely dinsoaur! I think what most people mean is that they want the massive parts of their workforce which are never used allowed to breathe and to challenge where there are problems. I agree that the words get in the way and anyway as I said think most people dont actually want a whole workforce of empowered challenging people. Its just that they have been told that this is right for now.

I think if we had the schools you describe glitterfairy it would be impossible to get teachers for them. I'm a teacher and agree 100% with hmb.
There are not there to break rules, rebel but to learn. Without discipline/rules etc there would be anarchy and it would not be safe to send your child to school.

It is well known that kids prefer structure and guidelines rather than disorder.

Thanks again hmb this looks really good. My kids are real self learners and I always encourage this in them. have just heard my dd5 reading aloud to herself on the stairs with school books.

Einstein didnt do that well at school though did he? He also never referred to anyone elses research but made his own. I think it is also the same in art picasso could do technical painting fabulously before he started to experiment.

The problem is when the basics arent interesting. I was useless at maths but saw a fantastic programme about sequences the other day which looked at patterns in nature adn islamic tiles. If this had been introduced as maths to me I would have gobbled it up.

I've probably misread your posts actually glitterfairy.

Mostly hercules this is what I see in my friends who are home educators. There is much to learn from them I think.

I agree that boundaries are needed we often call them rules I am not sure this is the case. Many of us (me included) are not good at boundaries because we were given rules and obeyed or didnt. Boundaries are more interesting and difficult.

Schools are like hopsitals they cannot please everyone adn individual children learn differently. My mum, aunt, fil and mil are all teachers and I know the presonal struggles they had to fulfil the expectations of kids, authorites and parents as well as their own high standards. One of the problems which I see is the lack of respect for education itself and for teachers in society as a whole which does not value the essential role they play. I am not sure that this has anything to do with uniform though.

agree.

Ps hercules it is my appaling spelling and lack of grammar which makes me difficult to understand! You can tell I was a bad student.

system is fine if you "fit" but if you dont...

Einstein may not have been a sucess at school but he was a damn fine at maths and could never have done what he did without the fundimentals at his fingertips. I have worked in resaerch for many years and you need to understand the basics before you can move onwards. It is like expecting a kid to become a creative write without being able to write simple words!

And the basics don't have to be dull....you should have been in my Y 7 class today on 'solids' we had role play, experimentation, deduction andcalculations. The kids had a good time and they learned. But they did so because I created the frame work to allow them to develop. They can't do it for themselves, they lack the organisational skills.

Hmb can i come and shadow you one day it sounds great ?

That was me good lesson todaty, the rest of the time I just smacked 'em into submission and suppressed their individuality!

To be honest the majority of teacher that I have watched (and being fairly new to the biz I have watched a lot!) go out of their way to make lessons intersting. It makes it interesting for us as well.

The trouble comes when the hormone fairy comes to visit the kids in Y9 and then everything becomes 'crap' for some of them. You could put them in Alton Towers for the day and it would all be 'crap'. And that is when you have to have the rules to make sure that those kids whodo want to work get the chance! It is fine and dandy for kids to rebel, it is their life, BUT it does piss me off when that rebelion comes at the price of other's education.

Glad to see that you keep up the smacking wherever you go hmb. To be honest the compulsion to slap some people can be overwhelming but obviously I couldnt possibly comment!

Still say boundaries are important. However once worked with a very questioning and challenging student who did need the odd prod. he always asked why which was good until we were in a crisis situation and instead of acting quickly he asked why. I actually didnt slap him but did ordered him to obey immediately then discussed it with him afterwards.

I'm known as being a very strict teacher and the kids know exactly where the rules are. I find they are happier that way. You can ease off with them as they get older and learn a little self respect and dicipline.

I love teaching sixthform, not because the kids are brighter, but because you can all relax and have some fun without them seeing it as a sign of weakness.....which is sadly far to common lower down in the school.

Precisely why I only work with adults and students who are post degree at that.

oh, we're on to uniforms now! I have been following this thread and the other smacking thread at work, but have had no time to post at the moment. Uniforms save time getting ready in the morning - time that I then spend making up packed lunches! Swings and roundabouts.

Still like them though - agree they instil a sense of order and belonging. Think firm boundaries and rules are good for some children at least - my sons thrive on order - can't say if this is true for all children.

I agree tigermoth that firm boudaries are needed.
Not sure that a sense of belonging to a group of children who tease my son because he does ballet or who jeer at difference like the colour of skin is what I want to have in my kids. I would prefer them not to want the latest thing just because johnny or doris have it but because they really want it for themselves.
Having said that I also want them to have friends and to be part of things. I am not at all sure how this wish list can be fulfilled though.

Love uniforms-DD has been in uniform since 2.5y and it's a delight. Non-iron, wash and wear, the summer dresses are actually quite pretty (although DD wishes they were pink not red) complete lifesavers. The amount of ironing over half-term was unbearable, am dreading summer hols-perhaps she could wear uniform to the childminder .

Have to say i think that the half-heated attempts at uniform you see in some places look worse than kids in their own clothes (at primary level).

Logged on just now, amazed that you are still going! not meant in a horrible way, but congrats, as no tangents off uniform!!!
For what its worth, I want to go back to school, I am fed up of being an adult and Batters school for her dd sounds wonderful. I am really impressed, joking apart. Is it a private school?

Message withdrawn

Bloss - you seem to have the knack of doing a precis, were you ever an English Teacher?
I understand and AGREE with all you are saying.

It can be done, Batters. A 7-yo girl in my dd1's class came to school on a non-uniform day wearing a tight t-shirt emblazoned in sparkly letters with the words 'Spirit of 69 Porn Star'.

A 'Shocked face' doesn't really cover it, somehow.