the big smacking debate part two

[glitterfairy]

This thread is too big now so have started a new one as this discussion is really important I think anyway.

Well, I would have thought that the parents were in quite a good position to say whether or not wearing uniform was good for their kids education. Or is it only teachers that can make that sort of assessment? {wink]

When I went to school, Uniforms meant, blouse, tunic, tie indoor and outdoor shoes of a certain style and don't forget the gaberdene mac UHG! Blazers and boaters were my worst nightmare. Purple blazer, and I mean bright puple.
They now seem to wear a sweatshirt, and that't it!
Sorry but I think that what I wore was a uniform and it did take away my individuality. The worst is everyone knowing that you uniform came from the school second hand clothes shop

Gliterfairy, some of the 'creativity' you don't want to see in a class! Some of the girls will dress like prostitutes and this does nothing for classroom managment or keeping them on task. They are dressing to attract the opposite sex and I want them to concentrate on their GCSE work. They can show their creativity there. Some will try to wear transparent blouses with black bras and a micro mini. Much easier to have a uniform and save hours of argument.

You are porbably right dinosaur but it is a general ethos I suppose that I am talking about where we all look similar and dress in similar ways and doing things differently is bad. Mostly yes they would all dress the same anyway but for the odd freak like I was it would be like a little piece of heaven.

Have to confess to never wearing uniform at secondary school and being expelled anyway (not for that) at this point. Sigh am a rebel and cannot help myself.

I have no objection to black bras and micro minis in school hmb

Out of interest glitterfairy, how would you cope if a teenagers expression was as I described?

How would you feel if you were a 21 year old male teacher having to have a chat with a girl about her dress?

How do you deal with the exclusion poor children feel because they cant get the 'right' clothes? (because dinosaur is deal right, they don't want to be different)

Well, we have to agree to differ. I think that is inaproriate and becomes a disruption to lessons, as it is intended to be.

Don't be daft dinosaur They do it to piss off the teachers!

Sorry dinsoaur was that meant for me?

Agree with you 100% Dinosaur. Last term I was in a school with a stricter uniform code. They 'rebelled' by leaving their tie undone.

Have to say I didnt even consider the teachers dinosuar and my world was the same school or home I wore the same and behaved the same. Very very badly I must say but am happily reformed after years of therapy and hard work. Now chair of governors in church school my teachers would be laughing!

I am not sure hmb that they would continue to piss teachers off if there were no rules. They would get bored of it if no-one took any notice. I know I stopped dressing as a punk when I was sent to the yorkshire Dales and no-one took any notice at all it was very disheartening!

I can't help but think that school, at least the 4 hours and 40 minutes of lesson time, is for them to do some work. Anything that helps them to work (which can still be fun btw) is a good idea. They can then go an rebel somewhere else and still get the qualifications that they need to go on to collage, get a job and/or continue to rebel.

And it is very difficult for youger male teachers to deal with the inapropriate dress issue. I have steped in to help out collegues, since I am a. female and b. old enough to be the kids mother, which always helps.

I don't like to see too much overt sexuality in school time, it is hard enough to keep the little cherub's minds on work as it is.

And kids love to moan about the rules! It is a rite of passage!

just a thought, when I was at school, we had one day a year when if you paid 10p to charity at school you could go to school in your uniform, and change at school into your own clothes (strict rules, no trousers, it was all girls school)but you had to change back into uniform before going home. It was a detention if you were seen in uniform in public eating sweets or anything, honestly.
People did seem to have more respect for teachers authority then and I think this is part of the problem.

Oh does anyone else remeber beaing able to wear their Guide/Brownie uniform on Saints days to school, or am I showing my age?

Yes sort of dinosaur although I have realised that I have made a career out of being a rebel and now teach others how to rebel! Its called a variety of things such as entrepreneurship or creativity and maverick behaviour which apparently I am employed to uncover and make flourish!

Adults are supposed to learn to challenge and become empowered! Not sure how our current education system allows for this process to begin in our children though and before you kill me hmb I am not sure that society wants all these challengers and mavericks in the way it says it does.

Bunglie I did wear uniform at work for years and understood the rationale perfectly so was a complete haridan when people who worked for me showed up in the wrong uniform and would even send them home (adults this is).

However I was only like this because I understood why. I have never been convinced on school uniform.

Well, I teach science and we need challengers and mavericks! BUT (and this is where you might want to kill me) you have to learn the basics first.

I'd be delighted if kids wanted to take control of their learning. I put masses of time and effort into enocraging this. But they don't (on the whole) want to. And those kids who are well motivated and want to be independent are most often the conformist kids who are happy in uniform!

Re how does the education system do this, have a gander at www.qca.org.uk/ages3-14/afl/7444.html. You will have to down load the file. It talks a lot about getting pupils to self assess and take control of their learning, setting goals and targets eyc. This is a big thing in education today