When does bilingual child start speaking 2nd language?

[IamPotty]

DS, almost 3, doesn?t speak his 2nd language but responds to his Father in English. Initially the 2 languages were very mixed, now he seems to have weeded out all of the 2nd language, though he understands it perfectly and enjoys reading and watching DVDs in that language. Is this common? When is he likely to actively start using his 2nd language?

Sorry if this has already been covered as I haven't had time to read the whole thread. What do you all think about trying to introduce a second language to a child that is not native to either parent (the language not the child!). I would really my son to understand French, but my French is A-level and Au Pair (!) standard, although I understand pretty well. I was hoping to use the BBC dvds and books, groups etc to help him acquire it. It is such a beautiful language and I thought he may as well learn when tiny, as it will be easier.

Is this all a big waste of time???

I think it's fine to teach little children languages if they enjoy it, though they're unlikely to make much progress just by looking at DVDs and books every now and then.

On this whole bilingualism thing, I'm intrigued by the idea that you might decide not to speak your native language to your child. I can't imagine speaking a 'foreign' language to my children, even though I do to my husband. I suppose I have plenty of other English people to talk to, so it hasn't lost priority as a language.

Rhubarb, he is not forcing Catalan on to him, he just keeps asking what when he is addressed in English, funny thing though is that now if DH speaks Spanish to me, DS reminds him to speak in Catalan

DS has a lovely accent for the three languages, obvoiusly the one he uses more is the predominant one. He is fluent in Catalan and Spanish (only hint of an accent is when he calls me mamaaaaaaaaa) but out of that he is doing fine. And he has not been traumatised or anything, for him using the three languages is as natural as knowing he has to eat lunch at 12:00. DH was also brought bilingual from birth, and he seems pretty normal so I think there's no huge damage on that and being familiar with two languages has helped him to learn to speak other 3 languages almost effortlessly while it has take me years to acquire my other 3.

I think pasive use of the 2nd language is OK if you have no plans to leave in a country where that language is spoken. However, if you, as me, are you sure you will go back permanently at some point in the future, persevere with the language, it would make integration far easier. Language is the main carrier of culture, DH and I would like DS to identify with our cultures with far more than being born to his parents, and emphasising the use of the language keeps that cultural connection alive.

I've only read up to a pointt, but I wanted to add m own experience as well.

My dd lived in the uk for 5 years (where she was born) and went to nursery and reception class there. We have always spoken Italian at home, and have just come back to Ital where she now attends an english school.

We find that her 2 languages are for the time being almost equivalent.

From the (limited) experience and reading OI have had on the subject, I also think that it's a lot more difficult when its the father who speaks the 'foreign' language, as he tends to spend less time with the children (usually).

I have also heard of alot of children not wanting to fit in, or being different, and this might kick in when they're older, but I think my dd, growing up in London, found it quite normal as at least half her classmates had a second language at home (even though they were perfectly fluent in English) and now she's in an international school, so children who can only speak english are actually a minority.

This is he only explanation I can find, she has always been proud of being able to speak 2 languages (somrtimes braggibg about it, I'm afraid), whether this happened by accident, or because we have been able to convey this to her, I don't know, but I do think it might make a difference in some cases.

charlielegal

from the literature I've read, it's pretty hopeless, as its been said here, children will learn a language if they need to communicate with it. Your child might learn something, but I don't know how much use it would be for him..sorry

Frogs, thanks for that long last post. There is so much food for thought here. I´m very hopeful for my own DS as we live in a very multilingual environment and won´t have the "fitting in" issue to deal with that some bilinguals living in the UK seem to face.

Thinking of that... I think most children we know are bilingual or come from families with bilingual parents. So, I guess the trying to fit in would only be a problem if DS spoke just one language.

frogs, thanks for your message of your experiences growing up bilingually.

It seems that your main 'negative' experience was that of feeling 'different' to your peers....

True, my children are still relatively young (almost 5 and 3) and therefore less self-conscious, but my 5 year old is very proud of speaking two languages. There are also quite a large number of other bilingual children in her school so that she does not appear too 'different'. But only time will tell how she will react as she gets older.... I hope she will continue to be proud of being able to speak another language other than English.

Have you noticed with adult learners of a foreign language that there are some who will start speaking when they have a vocabulary of maybe 20 words with great gusto and using their hands and feet to get the message across, whilst others wait until they have mastered correct sentence structure, have a larger vocabulary and feel comfortable conjugating verbs and declining nouns.

Perhaps some dc start using their 2nd language later because they are the second type? I noticed that dd spent 1 year in a German speaking kindergarten before she began to speak German. The first thing she said was just "manu" which is a complaint like say "man!". I didn't know the word so I didn't recognise that she was saying anything in German. She didn't ever use even 1 other word of German in that whole year. One day then she came out with a complete sentence in German and she took it from there. I think she'd been storing up knowledge till she felt ready to speak and she's a little perfectionist so she was waiting till she could really do it well.

I hadn't expected her to react like that at all.

Have been reading this thread with great interest! Dd of just 2 has so far been raised OPOL with me speaking Dutch to her, but despite this and Dutch telly & DVD's & songs I notice that her english environment seems to impact even more! Her speech is dutch/english mixed which I'm hoping will even out eventually.

Had to laugh at Ssshakethechi's post regarding adults speaking/learning another language! My other half will not even attempt to try to say something in French when on holiday as he gets really embarressed. I don't speak any French but still give it a go with lots of hand gesturing included!

Well if anyone knows about mastering foreign languages, it has to be the Dutch! I love the Dutch and they all speak foreign languages so well without seeming to get the least bit stressed about it.

OOOhh Ssshakethechi, what praise!! Although I can't take any of it as I've been a lazy sod and only ever concentrated on English! But I hope my dd takes after me in the language department and not other half! But I'm hoping that because I speak to her in Dutch most of the time and also when we are out and about (quite loudly sometines, I just forget!)she won't be embarressed like my other half. He found it quite difficult at first when I talked to her in Dutch in Asda and people stared!

UKcloggie, if you only talk to your lo in Dutch "most of the time" then you´re not using the OPOL approach but MIXING the languages, which is exactly what you should avoid doing, particularly at this very early stage in language development.

What on earth does your DH have to be embarassed about when you speak Dutch in public? Is he ashamed that you speak a foreign language? I thank God I´m not bringing up my DS in the UK, because this type of reaction seems to be quite common. An unsupportive monolingual Father can easily wear you down to becoming an English-only speaking family. Can you get him to take Dutch classes? Are you teaching him the language?

Iampotty, feel as if I have to defend myself a bit now, I'll just assume that that wasn't your intention. I probably speak Dutch 95% of the time, occasionally I chuck in some English but I've been here 14 years and so I personally feel that's unavoidable. I don't feel that I'm mixing the two languages.
My other half is not unsupportive or ashamed at all, hope that's not how I made it seem. It's just his shy nature and possibly his English reserve (no offence to natives here!) coming through, but he's used to it now and is quite proud that his dd will be able to hold her own in english and dutch. On the whole I must say that both sides of the family are very supportive and haven't had any direct negative responses so far.

IamPotty, I also do not agree with your statement:

"I thank God I´m not bringing up my DS in the UK, because this type of reaction seems to be quite common."

We live in the UK and I always speak German with my children when we are out and about and I have never had any negative reaction. On the contrary, most people are very complimentary and tell us how lucky our children are to grow up bilingually.

ukcloggie, so sorry if I offended, I didn´t mean to - same for you annasmami..

From my own experience and that of multi-lingual friends in the UK I have seen that bilingual children grow older it is common for the Mother´s native language to be lost in the case where the English-speaking Father doesn´t speak or support the language. I even think some research has been done into this.. Anyone know anything?

Anecdotally, it is normally the woman in a dual nationality couple that moves to the DH´s country and has to integrate into that culture, rarely the other way round. "Losing" the language may be part of that.

Iampotty, I can imagime it could happen that you lose your language if you were in my situation. I made the decision to speak Dutch to my child when pregnant, partly because I'm Dutch and proud and dd is half Dutch and also out of practical reasons because my mum and some other relatives don't speak English.

OK, just my experience.
Both me and my 3 older siblings grew up speaking 2 languages.Dutch and my mum's language. None of us had any problems. I think my 2 older sisters learned my mum's language first as my mum wasn't able to speak anything else (well, she spoke English to my dad which isn't my dad's first or second language either...later my dad learned enough of her language to understand it and my mum learned enough Dutch to understand him) I found it odd not to reply to my mother in "her" language".
I'm now living in the UK and know I'm not as fluently in my mum's language as I used to be (my mum died 6 years ago), even my Dutch tends to get a bit rusty...).
DH speaks another language and we have had major rows as he isn't teaching our dc his language, he feels he is just too lazy, but has no problems with it as such as he has lots of friends from his "home" country living in the UK.

PS Just a bit paranoid about people recognising me if I say what my mum's and dh's language is...

I was getting a bit confused trying to figure out how many languages were involved and who was speaking what! Glad that multilingualism works for your family

keep up the dvds and talking in the 2nd lang - go with your ds on this. Let him talk in the lang he wants - I would be confident once in the country he'd be using the lang no probs

ok, I'm Dutch, my mum Is Scandinavian, my dad Oriental and they met each other in Holland.
I'm now married to an Asian and living in the UK. ....

Anyone who knows me in RL will recognise me for sure....

I would just like to step in and maybe provide some degree of reassurance to parents of children who are not actively speaking the language.

We lived in Spain approx 4 years from when I was about 2.5 years old. I went to an english school but watch spanish tv and had spanish babysitters and spanish lessons. I spoke a small amount of spanish but very minimal. Although I had sporadic holidays in the country and did GCSE spanish (with an appallingly inept teacher I should add), I was aware of a vague degree of understanding but very vague and I NEVER spoke it.

Fast forward to me returning to live here 4 years ago at 25 years old. I took a couple of months of private lessons, once a week for an hour. My teacher was floored by how my pronunciation was so instinctive and how quickly I picked everything up..the grammar structure of sentences seemed very obvious to me. He was convinced that my early exposure to spanish definitely laid down the groundwork and it was there, dormant, just needing to be activated. Still at this stage I was mostly surrounded by english friends and only spoke spanish e.g. in shops or restaurants. 4 months after arriving I met my now dh who is Catalan and spoke no english. A few weeks together (and me finally SPEAKING the language) and it just took off. By 6 months after arriving I was almost fluent and well within the year I was totally fluent. I don´t think this is in anyway due to particular intelligence or flair for languages on my part. I think it has everything to do with the exposure at a young age. I can even see it in my older sister who has never studied spanish since we lived here. You can tell she is understanding our conversations to some degree but in this strange, ít´s almost there but I can´t quite grasp it´ kind of way. I am positive that is she ever tried she would pick it up in a flash.

What I am trying to say is that you are doing the best you can in exposing your children to the language and you can´t do more than that. If they resist now you can hope that the information is there and will, to some degree, be reactivated later in life, of course depending on their motivation.

My first is due in a couple of months and I will speak to him in english, dh in catalan but when the 3 of us are together we will speak spanish as that is what dh and I speak to each other. We live in Spain. His paternal relatives will speak catalan and my parents who live near me will speak to him in english. If they move away and his environment becomes more heavily spanish I would sign him up to english speaking activity clubs or send him to the UK for holidays! Despite this he may go through periods of refusing to speak English but we can only try our best!

Maveta, thanks for your positive and encouraging post! Great to read your experience and best wishes on your pregnancy! Has cheered me up no end!

Yes, that was really sweet! And congratulations on all your achievements!

I spk English to my dd of 2.5 but dh and PIL and nursery teachers all in Italian.She understands Eng perfectly but automatically replies in Italian.She does know the difference though and now is starting to say more in Eng spontaneously and repeat more Eng phrases after me, and recites nursery rymhes in Eng.too.